[ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
- From: Ian Macrae <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
- To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:26:20 +0100
Brilliant! Another book I found littered with errors was one by Stuart
Maconey, which I think was called HOpe And glory and concerned visits to
various notable for one reason or another places in England.
On 11 Jun 2013, at 20:35, Trish Talbot wrote:
> Oh yes, Ian, Ellis Peters playing Mrs. Dale. Wasn't she eventually replaced
> and the part taken over by Stanley Matthews?
> Trish.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:43 PM
> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>
>
> One instance of this I came across in non fiction Trish was when I read Simon
> elmes's history of voices on radio called Hello Again. At one point he
> referred to the actor who played Mrs Dale as Ellis Peters. I emailed him to
> congratulate him on what is a very interesting and entertaining book but
> could not resist the chance to point out his error. She was actually named
> Ellis Powell. The sound of him kicking himself was very audible in his reply
> when he'd realised that ellis Peters was a crime writer. On the language
> front what also get me going is the use of expressions which just weren't
> around at the time. Excellent though C J Sansum's dominion is, there are a
> few examples of this in there. I think at one point someone says, "There you
> go" which I'm sure didn't come into common usage until the early 70s, not the
> 50s.
> On 11 Jun 2013, at 17:21, Trish Talbot wrote:
>
>> I must admit, Ian, that I didn't notice, let alone be annoyed by, "Knowing
>> the heft of every knife", but I know just how much t5hese things can
>> irritate. I getfind it frustrating when American words sneak into
>> supposedly very British books, e.g. "She put the book in her purse". (Must
>> have been a big purse, her handbag must have been very large to hold itj).
>> Much as I loved the book, I found it disappointing when, atnear the end of
>> Michelle Magorian's "GGoodnight, Mr. Tom", she talks about one of the girls
>> wearing Zak's "Pants" when she means trousers, and about two sentences
>> later, talks about them spooning "Jelly" onto their bread. I also dislike
>> it when a dialect word is either used in the wrong sense, or spoken by
>> someone supposedly from a different county, though this tends to happen more
>> in TV dramatisations than in books.
>>
>> The other "Red car in Benn-Hurr" equivalent that jars on me is when a writer
>> refers to a record or piece of music which wasn't recorded at the time.
>> Maeve Binchy is guilty of this in "Firefly Summer". It shouldn't matter
>> really, but it makes the story slightly less believable.
>> Trish
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Macrae
>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:34 AM
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>
>>
>> Hi elaine, for me it doesn't matter whether the language reflects the
>> reality of such a person. This, as you suggest, is fiction after all. I'm
>> sure the Saxons and Danes in Bernard cornwell's series set at the time of
>> Alfred didn't speak in the way, meaning I suppose the idiom that his
>> characters do. for me it's about whether they are true to the story and to
>> the overall intention of the author. That phrase from the Bradford family's
>> cook about knowing the heft of every knife just jarred with me. It's like
>> the fact that people have spotted that there's a red car in one of the
>> backgrounds of the great chariot race from the movie of Ben Her.
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 23:56, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ah, yes, I see what you mean.
>>
>> I don’t recall her bring particularly articulate but you could well be
>> right. In fact, you have raised a most interesting question there. It has
>> often occurred to me in the past that some characters express themselves
>> more clearly and/or in better language than might their real life
>> counterparts; it used to annoy me but no longer does. Not sure why. Perhaps
>> an acceptance of artistic licence and a fear of inverted snobbier: as in,
>> who am I to judge how well or badly someone may express themselves. It has
>> occurred to me often, though, throughout my many years of reading.
>> Thank you for prompting me to think about it again.
>>
>> Elaine
>>
>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 6:21 AM
>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>
>> Hi elanie, I'm sure I'll go back to the book, but the cook in question was
>> the one who was fired when the big cheese family fled the village.
>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 19:38, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian, I can understand your doubts with Geraldine brooks’ Anna but since
>> the narrator – by the end of the book and the perspective from which she is
>> telling the story – is no mere seventeenth-century cook. Her education grows
>> along with the book.
>>
>> For the record, Geraldine Brooks is Australian, started out as a reporter
>> and her first book was non-fiction on Moslem women, married to Anthony
>> (Tony) Horrowitz; not sure if he is English but is well-known for his
>> children’s fiction (which I have not read) and they live in America though I
>> think spend a fair amount of time in the UK.
>>
>> I loved the language; to me that was part of the thrill of the book; many
>> of the words I think you would find only in a mediaeval dictionary.
>>
>> However, only you can know if a book is for you.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Elaine
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 3:25 AM
>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>
>> Anyone care to outline what kind of fiction she writes? I must confess to
>> be still struggling rather with Geraldine Brooks. Part of it is language. I
>> don't believe any cook in the 17th century would ever have said, :I now the
>> heft of every knife in this kitchen". It's a bit like those female American
>> writers of historical fiction who think they create the language of the 15th
>> century by inserting the word "Do" before every active verb.
>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 17:54, Shell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think you might enjoy Sister David, though you do have to be on top of
>> things at the end as Steve says. I think it's much more up your street
>> though.
>> Shell.
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "David Russell" <david.russell8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:58 PM
>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>
>>> I read "Afterwards" and really struggled with it for many reasons. It would
>>> take a good deal of persuasion for me to try reading Lupton again.
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Clare Gailans
>>> Sent: 10 June 2013 12:03
>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>
>>> Trish, I have Sister and will try it now as you say it is so much better. I
>>> thought all the out-of-body business in Afterwrds spoilt what was otherwise
>>> a good book. Clare
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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