[ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
- From: Ian Macrae <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
- To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:37:34 +0100
I think his new one is based on his current Radio 2 series The People's Songs.
The series is very good but I don't how it would work in a book where you
could't hear the songs in question.
On 11 Jun 2013, at 21:52, David Russell wrote:
> I remember that Maconie book. He travelled around the UK stopping off at
> every Greggs bakers shop for a chicken and mushroom pasty. I actually went
> into my local Gregs and asked for one of the aforementioned pasties, and,
> alas, they told me they did not sell them.
>
> What a let down. I think the book was called "Pies and prejudice", and his
> previous book was "Cider with roadies".
>
> I think he has a new one out. I wonder if it has a witty title?
>
>
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
> Sent: 11 June 2013 21:26
> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>
> Brilliant! Another book I found littered with errors was one by Stuart
> Maconey, which I think was called HOpe And glory and concerned visits to
> various notable for one reason or another places in England.
> On 11 Jun 2013, at 20:35, Trish Talbot wrote:
>
>> Oh yes, Ian, Ellis Peters playing Mrs. Dale. Wasn't she eventually
> replaced and the part taken over by Stanley Matthews?
>> Trish.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Macrae" <ian.macrae1@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:43 PM
>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Language In Books
>>
>>
>> One instance of this I came across in non fiction Trish was when I read
> Simon elmes's history of voices on radio called Hello Again. At one point
> he referred to the actor who played Mrs Dale as Ellis Peters. I emailed him
> to congratulate him on what is a very interesting and entertaining book but
> could not resist the chance to point out his error. She was actually named
> Ellis Powell. The sound of him kicking himself was very audible in his
> reply when he'd realised that ellis Peters was a crime writer. On the
> language front what also get me going is the use of expressions which just
> weren't around at the time. Excellent though C J Sansum's dominion is,
> there are a few examples of this in there. I think at one point someone
> says, "There you go" which I'm sure didn't come into common usage until the
> early 70s, not the 50s.
>> On 11 Jun 2013, at 17:21, Trish Talbot wrote:
>>
>>> I must admit, Ian, that I didn't notice, let alone be annoyed by,
> "Knowing the heft of every knife", but I know just how much t5hese things
> can irritate. I getfind it frustrating when American words sneak into
> supposedly very British books, e.g. "She put the book in her purse". (Must
> have been a big purse, her handbag must have been very large to hold itj).
> Much as I loved the book, I found it disappointing when, atnear the end of
> Michelle Magorian's "GGoodnight, Mr. Tom", she talks about one of the girls
> wearing Zak's "Pants" when she means trousers, and about two sentences
> later, talks about them spooning "Jelly" onto their bread. I also dislike
> it when a dialect word is either used in the wrong sense, or spoken by
> someone supposedly from a different county, though this tends to happen more
> in TV dramatisations than in books.
>>>
>>> The other "Red car in Benn-Hurr" equivalent that jars on me is when a
> writer refers to a record or piece of music which wasn't recorded at the
> time. Maeve Binchy is guilty of this in "Firefly Summer". It shouldn't
> matter really, but it makes the story slightly less believable.
>>> Trish
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Macrae
>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:34 AM
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi elaine, for me it doesn't matter whether the language reflects the
> reality of such a person. This, as you suggest, is fiction after all. I'm
> sure the Saxons and Danes in Bernard cornwell's series set at the time of
> Alfred didn't speak in the way, meaning I suppose the idiom that his
> characters do. for me it's about whether they are true to the story and to
> the overall intention of the author. That phrase from the Bradford family's
> cook about knowing the heft of every knife just jarred with me. It's like
> the fact that people have spotted that there's a red car in one of the
> backgrounds of the great chariot race from the movie of Ben Her.
>>>
>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 23:56, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, yes, I see what you mean.
>>>
>>> I don't recall her bring particularly articulate but you could well be
> right. In fact, you have raised a most interesting question there. It has
> often occurred to me in the past that some characters express themselves
> more clearly and/or in better language than might their real life
> counterparts; it used to annoy me but no longer does. Not sure why. Perhaps
> an acceptance of artistic licence and a fear of inverted snobbier: as in,
> who am I to judge how well or badly someone may express themselves. It has
> occurred to me often, though, throughout my many years of reading.
>>> Thank you for prompting me to think about it again.
>>>
>>> Elaine
>>>
>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 6:21 AM
>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>
>>> Hi elanie, I'm sure I'll go back to the book, but the cook in question
> was the one who was fired when the big cheese family fled the village.
>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 19:38, Elaine Harris (Rivendell) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ian, I can understand your doubts with Geraldine brooks' Anna but since
> the narrator - by the end of the book and the perspective from which she is
> telling the story - is no mere seventeenth-century cook. Her education grows
> along with the book.
>>>
>>> For the record, Geraldine Brooks is Australian, started out as a
> reporter and her first book was non-fiction on Moslem women, married to
> Anthony (Tony) Horrowitz; not sure if he is English but is well-known for
> his children's fiction (which I have not read) and they live in America
> though I think spend a fair amount of time in the UK.
>>>
>>> I loved the language; to me that was part of the thrill of the book;
> many of the words I think you would find only in a mediaeval dictionary.
>>>
>>> However, only you can know if a book is for you.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Elaine
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Macrae
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 3:25 AM
>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>
>>> Anyone care to outline what kind of fiction she writes? I must confess
> to be still struggling rather with Geraldine Brooks. Part of it is
> language. I don't believe any cook in the 17th century would ever have said,
> :I now the heft of every knife in this kitchen". It's a bit like those
> female American writers of historical fiction who think they create the
> language of the 15th century by inserting the word "Do" before every active
> verb.
>>> On 10 Jun 2013, at 17:54, Shell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you might enjoy Sister David, though you do have to be on top
> of things at the end as Steve says. I think it's much more up your street
> though.
>>> Shell.
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "David Russell" <david.russell8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:58 PM
>>> To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>
>>>> I read "Afterwards" and really struggled with it for many reasons.
>>>> It would take a good deal of persuasion for me to try reading Lupton
> again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>> On Behalf Of Clare Gailans
>>>> Sent: 10 June 2013 12:03
>>>> To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Rosamund Lupton.
>>>>
>>>> Trish, I have Sister and will try it now as you say it is so much
>>>> better. I thought all the out-of-body business in Afterwrds spoilt
>>>> what was otherwise a good book. Clare
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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