[dokuwiki] Re: [PATCH] various Dokuwiki tests

At 06:19 +0200 UTC, on 2006-07-31, Gerry Weißbach wrote:

> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

Hrmpf :( Is 'HTML' mail appreciated on this list? (I'm new here.)

> Sander Tekelenburg schrieb:
>
>> At 22:45 +0200 UTC, on 2006-07-30, Andreas Gohr wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:23:21 +0200
>>> Matthias Grimm
>>><mailto:matthiasgrimm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx><matthiasgrimm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> By the way: The form looks like a table why not use <table> for it?[...]
>>>
>>> Because a table is to be used to display tabular **data** and should not
>>> be used for design reasons. It is just not semantically correct.
>>
>> FWIW, IMO form fields and their labels can most definitely be considered
>> tabular data.

[...]

> As far as I know the suggested layout can easylie be done via <label>. Take
>a look at
><http://www.einfach-fuer-alle.de/artikel/formulare/tag1/>

Yuck. That relies on <br>.

>or
><http://webstandard.kulando.de/post/2006/07/24/layout_fur_formulare>

How about real world examples, using more complex forms? I experimented a bit
using W3C's example as a (still quite simple) starting point, see:
<http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/forms/>. I think this shows that when you
need subgrouping within forms, the only way to express that semantically is
through lots of (nested) fieldsets. It seems to me that that shows that what
you're then actually doing is defining a table. In other words: you think of
the data as tabular. And if that's the case, then it *is* tabular, and
therefore marking up as such is more appropriate.

Additionally, it appears that to present such a form in a nice way still
requires presenting the data as tabular data (see the CSS of
<http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/forms/>). That in turn seems to confirm to
me that the data *is* tabular. (For example the labels for last name, first
name and address IMO should be grouped, as should their input fields and the
only way to do that is by through CSS tables.)

(Btw, that CSS is messy. Not intended as art ;) Just a q&d attempt at
presenting a form sensibly despite it being marked up as non-tabular.)


-- 
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>
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