[bookshare-discuss] Re: OT: dreams
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:37:18 -0700 (PDT)
Very interesting.
As for dreaming about falling asleep and missing something you were supposed to
do, missing an important test is a common dream I think, especially for kids in
school and for quite a few years afterward--I still have it occasionally. Also,
dreaming that I've gone to school or outside either with no clothes on, or only
half. Awful.
G.Cindy
--- On Wed, 6/18/08, Shannon <shannon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Shannon <shannon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: OT: dreams
> To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 9:48 AM
> I think I see about as much in my dreams as I normally do,
> meaning
> that I don't. But my dreams are odd because a lot of
> times I dream
> that something I am reading is playing out for me... like
> the world's
> best audio described movie with me both observing and
> taking part in
> the action.
>
> But I don't think I see in dreams, or else they're
> set at night when
> it's dark anyway.
>
> Shannon
> Who had the recurring nightmare last night where she falls
> asleep and
> wakes up at, like, 3:00 the next afternoon, totally missing
> stuff I
> was supposed to do.
>
> At 05:07 PM 6/17/2008, Grandma Cindy wrote:
> >Thinking about Nicole's explanation, which made
> good sense, and A.
> >J.'s interesting comments/experiences, because he
> had had sight in
> >one eye and never in the other, I wondered t--and I do
> hope I'm not
> >being bothersome with my questions, or rude, but
> I'm learning so
> >much, and having myths exploded--like the blackness.
> smile
> >
> >What are the dreams of those of you who have been blind
> from birth like?
> >
> >I assume that in the course of your lives people have
> described
> >things to you, and you have touched and felt and
> smelled things, and
> >so must imagine them, and as Suzanne says, your brains
> are normal
> >and get messages from the other senses, so your dreams
> must be like
> >everyone else's except probably shapes are
> different. Am I correct?
> >BYW, we sighted people--or at least I, don't
> usually dream in
> >color; when I do it is unusual enough that I am
> surprised. I wonder
> >why that is. Any neural scientists here?
> >
> >G.Cindy
> >
> > > From: Suzanne Wilson
> <suzannewilson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: blackness
> > > To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 5:00 AM
> > > Elf Queen,
> > >
> > > It sounds like you have been totally blind since
> birth, or
> > > very shortly
> > > thereafter. ROP, maybe? Just as a point of
> interest, I
> > > had to have an EEG
> > > done a couple years ago. An EEG gives feedback
> to doctors
> > > about whether a
> > > person has had a seizure. It looks at your brain
> waves,
> > > and the person
> > > reading the graphs can get feedback in real time
> about
> > > whether there has
> > > been damage in any portion of the brain. I was
> chatting
> > > with the
> > > technician, and I mentioned my long-standing
> curiosity of
> > > what the visual
> > > cortex of my brain looked like, since I had never
> been able
> > > to see. Was it
> > > a dead wasteland, unused because no visual
> information had
> > > ever gone through
> > > it? She gave me an interesting answer, actually
> the one I
> > > had hoped for.
> > > No, she said, it was vibrant and active, and did
> not differ
> > > in its
> > > appearance or wave output from the brain of a
> sighted
> > > person. My conclusion
> > > was that I must use that part of my brain for
> other things,
> > > or perhaps for
> > > reading Braille.
> > >
> > > Sue
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Elfqueen"
> <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:58 AM
> > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: blackness
> > >
> > >
> > > > What does nothing look like to a person who
> can't
> > > see anything?
> > > > Well...*laughs* it doesn't look like
> anything,
> > > because it doesn't "look"
> > > > at all! For all the doctors know, my eyes
> might not
> > > even be connected to
> > > > my brain, so if they're not connected,
> they can
> > > give no feedback, so that
> > > > part of my brain that would have processed
> visual
> > > information otherwise
> > > > doesn't work at all, I guess. It's
> hard to
> > > explain and even harder if you
> > > > don't know what it's like to get
> your mind
> > > around. I guess it's just one
> > > > of those facts that has to be accepted at
> face value.
> > > I used to wonder,
> > > > when I was little, since everyone said I
> must see
> > > black, did that mean
> > > > black looked like nothing. Now when I think
> of true
> > > black, I think of
> > > > leather or evil guys in fantasies, so that
> just never
> > > made sense.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Grandma Cindy"
> > > <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:55 AM
> > > > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] blackness
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>I still don't understand. I guess,
> Nicole,
> > > it's because when we sighted
> > > >>people close our eyes everything is
> black. What
> > > does nothing at all look
> > > >>like? White? I suppose it's
> impossible for me
> > > to imagine. Eveerything I
> > > >>think of, like a blank tv screen or a
> blank
> > > chalkboard--one of those
> > > >>plastic kinds of things--is white. A dead
> phone is
> > > silent, but I can't
> > > >>imagine that visually.
> > > >>
> > > >> G.Cindy
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, EVAN REESE
> > > <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> From: EVAN REESE
> <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: ot
> blind
> > > >>> To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >>> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:32 PM
> > > >>> I understand completely about seeing
> black as
> > > opposed to
> > > >>> nothing at all.
> > > >>> Both of my eyes are artificial now,
> but I had
> > > some vision
> > > >>> in the left one in
> > > >>> early childhood, but not in the
> right one. So
> > > now I see
> > > >>> black in the left
> > > >>> one and nothing in the right one.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I explained it to someone this way:
> It is like
> > > being on the
> > > >>> phone with
> > > >>> someone who is not talking at the
> moment
> > > versus being on a
> > > >>> phone that isn't
> > > >>> connected to anything. There is a
> difference.
> > > Or, it is
> > > >>> like a carrier wave
> > > >>> that is not modulated, versus no
> carrier wave
> > > at all. That
> > > >>> is the best I can
> > > >>> do at the moment.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> True, technically I don't
> actually see
> > > anything out of
> > > >>> either eye, but I
> > > >>> believe it is though the part of my
> brain that
> > > used to
> > > >>> process information
> > > >>> from the left eye is still there,
> waiting for
> > > input. But
> > > >>> the part of my
> > > >>> brain that processes information
> from the
> > > right eye never
> > > >>> developed. I
> > > >>> experience a different feeling from
> the right
> > > eye to the
> > > >>> left. The
> > > >>> difference is between having had
> sight and
> > > lost it, no
> > > >>> matter how little,
> > > >>> and not having had any at all.
> Perhaps those
> > > who've
> > > >>> lost a limb can relate
> > > >>> to what I am inadequately saying
> here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Evan
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> From: "Elfqueen"
> > > <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> To:
> <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:54 PM
> > > >>> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: ot
> blind
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > Oh, lovely, lovely, lovely
> color
> > > descriptions! I love
> > > >>> them! And thank you,
> > > >>> > you just added to mine, and I
> always like
> > > to have mine
> > > >>> added to. :D
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > I read a lot (obviously), so I
> tend to
> > > associate
> > > >>> colors with things I've
> > > >>> > read them compared to,
> depending on the
> > > shade. I
> > > >>> won't do a lot, but white
> > > >>> > can be something fluffy, say
> lamb's
> > > wool, or
> > > >>> course hair (no idea where
> > > >>> > that came from, I just think of
> that if I
> > > hear/read
> > > >>> that, say, a dog or a
> > > >>> > horse is "white with
> age"), or
> > > thin silk in
> > > >>> reference to dresses, or snow
> > > >>> > and frosty air. Blue can be
> water or
> > > smooth, cool
> > > >>> glass, or velvet or
> > > >>> > satin. Green: grass, the taste
> of lime,
> > > the feel of
> > > >>> embroidery...again
> > > >>> > just personal images here.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > You know, a friend and I were
> talking
> > > about the
> > > >>> "do blind people see
> > > >>> > black" thing recently. He
> used to
> > > have a great
> > > >>> deal of sight and has lost
> > > >>> > nearly all of it. I don't
> know how
> > > much he really
> > > >>> sees now, but I think
> > > >>> > unless he's very close to
> something,
> > > like nose to
> > > >>> nose, he can't see
> > > >>> > anything. A lot of people think
> that if
> > > you can't
> > > >>> see, you must see black,
> > > >>> > but the truth is if you
> can't see,
> > > you *really*
> > > >>> can't see. Anything. My
> > > >>> > eyes don't work because
> they're
> > > deformed, too
> > > >>> small, covered in scar
> > > >>> > tissue, and may not even have
> an optic
> > > nerve. So my
> > > >>> brain doesn't get any
> > > >>> > feedback from them, therefore,
> how could
> > > I see
> > > >>> anything, even black?
> > > >>> > That's what I ask myself
> every time
> > > someone asks
> > > >>> me if it's awful always
> > > >>> > being in the dark. *smile*
> > > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> > From: "Grandma Cindy"
> > > >>> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> > To:
> > > <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >>> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008
> 11:16 PM
> > > >>> > Subject: [bookshare-discuss]
> Re: ot blind
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >> You're making great
> sense--and
> > > your analogies
> > > >>> are good ones, though I
> > > >>> >> admit I don't
> understand green
> > > being
> > > >>> lemon--which is yellow, by the way.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> If I had to describe green,
> though
> > > there are many,
> > > >>> many different shades
> > > >>> >> in the natural world, I
> would
> > > describe it as being
> > > >>> cool, like the feel of
> > > >>> >> cool weather or a cool,
> light breeze.
> > > Red, yes, is
> > > >>> hot. yellow, I'd say
> > > >>> >> the feel of the warm sun on
> your
> > > skin. Orange,
> > > >>> you're right--the taste of
> > > >>> >> orange is a good one--maybe
> the taste
> > > of the drink
> > > >>> Tang, too. BLue--cool
> > > >>> >> like the water in a lake.
> Purple--of
> > > course there
> > > >>> are many different
> > > >>> >> shades, from pale lavender
> to a
> > > deeper
> > > >>> purple--let's say the pale
> > > >>> >> lavender would be like
> > > >>> >> the smell of lilacs or the
> feel of
> > > silk, and a
> > > >>> more "regular" shade of
> > > >>> >> purple...like a bruise,
> perhaps,
> > > since bruises
> > > >>> turn purple and sometimes
> > > >>> >> blue--or velvet. Black and
> > > brown--since so many
> > > >>> men's shoes are brown,
> > > >>> >> I'd describe brown as
> smooth
> > > leather, and
> > > >>> black--well, if you're blind,
> > > >>> >> isn't everything black?
> or is
> > > that a myth.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> As far as missing what you
> don't
> > > know, I
> > > >>> originally was going to add "or
> > > >>> >> know about," because
> of things
> > > like driving
> > > >>> and travel--places I haven't
> > > >>> >> been but know about i do
> miss not
> > > going to. But I
> > > >>> thought that would
> > > >>> >> confuse the issue. smile
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> G.Cindy
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >>
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