Thinking about Nicole's explanation, which made good sense, and A.
J.'s interesting comments/experiences, because he had had sight in
one eye and never in the other, I wondered t--and I do hope I'm not
being bothersome with my questions, or rude, but I'm learning so
much, and having myths exploded--like the blackness. smile
What are the dreams of those of you who have been blind from birth like?
I assume that in the course of your lives people have described
things to you, and you have touched and felt and smelled things, and
so must imagine them, and as Suzanne says, your brains are normal
and get messages from the other senses, so your dreams must be like
everyone else's except probably shapes are different. Am I correct?
BYW, we sighted people--or at least I, don't usually dream in
color; when I do it is unusual enough that I am surprised. I wonder
why that is. Any neural scientists here?
G.Cindy
> From: Suzanne Wilson <suzannewilson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: blackness
> To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 5:00 AM
> Elf Queen,
>
> It sounds like you have been totally blind since birth, or
> very shortly
> thereafter. ROP, maybe? Just as a point of interest, I
> had to have an EEG
> done a couple years ago. An EEG gives feedback to doctors
> about whether a
> person has had a seizure. It looks at your brain waves,
> and the person
> reading the graphs can get feedback in real time about
> whether there has
> been damage in any portion of the brain. I was chatting
> with the
> technician, and I mentioned my long-standing curiosity of
> what the visual
> cortex of my brain looked like, since I had never been able
> to see. Was it
> a dead wasteland, unused because no visual information had
> ever gone through
> it? She gave me an interesting answer, actually the one I
> had hoped for.
> No, she said, it was vibrant and active, and did not differ
> in its
> appearance or wave output from the brain of a sighted
> person. My conclusion
> was that I must use that part of my brain for other things,
> or perhaps for
> reading Braille.
>
> Sue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elfqueen" <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:58 AM
> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: blackness
>
>
> > What does nothing look like to a person who can't
> see anything?
> > Well...*laughs* it doesn't look like anything,
> because it doesn't "look"
> > at all! For all the doctors know, my eyes might not
> even be connected to
> > my brain, so if they're not connected, they can
> give no feedback, so that
> > part of my brain that would have processed visual
> information otherwise
> > doesn't work at all, I guess. It's hard to
> explain and even harder if you
> > don't know what it's like to get your mind
> around. I guess it's just one
> > of those facts that has to be accepted at face value.
> I used to wonder,
> > when I was little, since everyone said I must see
> black, did that mean
> > black looked like nothing. Now when I think of true
> black, I think of
> > leather or evil guys in fantasies, so that just never
> made sense.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Grandma Cindy"
> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:55 AM
> > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] blackness
> >
> >
> >>I still don't understand. I guess, Nicole,
> it's because when we sighted
> >>people close our eyes everything is black. What
> does nothing at all look
> >>like? White? I suppose it's impossible for me
> to imagine. Eveerything I
> >>think of, like a blank tv screen or a blank
> chalkboard--one of those
> >>plastic kinds of things--is white. A dead phone is
> silent, but I can't
> >>imagine that visually.
> >>
> >> G.Cindy
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, EVAN REESE
> <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: EVAN REESE <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: ot blind
> >>> To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:32 PM
> >>> I understand completely about seeing black as
> opposed to
> >>> nothing at all.
> >>> Both of my eyes are artificial now, but I had
> some vision
> >>> in the left one in
> >>> early childhood, but not in the right one. So
> now I see
> >>> black in the left
> >>> one and nothing in the right one.
> >>>
> >>> I explained it to someone this way: It is like
> being on the
> >>> phone with
> >>> someone who is not talking at the moment
> versus being on a
> >>> phone that isn't
> >>> connected to anything. There is a difference.
> Or, it is
> >>> like a carrier wave
> >>> that is not modulated, versus no carrier wave
> at all. That
> >>> is the best I can
> >>> do at the moment.
> >>>
> >>> True, technically I don't actually see
> anything out of
> >>> either eye, but I
> >>> believe it is though the part of my brain that
> used to
> >>> process information
> >>> from the left eye is still there, waiting for
> input. But
> >>> the part of my
> >>> brain that processes information from the
> right eye never
> >>> developed. I
> >>> experience a different feeling from the right
> eye to the
> >>> left. The
> >>> difference is between having had sight and
> lost it, no
> >>> matter how little,
> >>> and not having had any at all. Perhaps those
> who've
> >>> lost a limb can relate
> >>> to what I am inadequately saying here.
> >>>
> >>> Evan
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Elfqueen"
> <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:54 PM
> >>> Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: ot blind
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Oh, lovely, lovely, lovely color
> descriptions! I love
> >>> them! And thank you,
> >>> > you just added to mine, and I always like
> to have mine
> >>> added to. :D
> >>> >
> >>> > I read a lot (obviously), so I tend to
> associate
> >>> colors with things I've
> >>> > read them compared to, depending on the
> shade. I
> >>> won't do a lot, but white
> >>> > can be something fluffy, say lamb's
> wool, or
> >>> course hair (no idea where
> >>> > that came from, I just think of that if I
> hear/read
> >>> that, say, a dog or a
> >>> > horse is "white with age"), or
> thin silk in
> >>> reference to dresses, or snow
> >>> > and frosty air. Blue can be water or
> smooth, cool
> >>> glass, or velvet or
> >>> > satin. Green: grass, the taste of lime,
> the feel of
> >>> embroidery...again
> >>> > just personal images here.
> >>> >
> >>> > You know, a friend and I were talking
> about the
> >>> "do blind people see
> >>> > black" thing recently. He used to
> have a great
> >>> deal of sight and has lost
> >>> > nearly all of it. I don't know how
> much he really
> >>> sees now, but I think
> >>> > unless he's very close to something,
> like nose to
> >>> nose, he can't see
> >>> > anything. A lot of people think that if
> you can't
> >>> see, you must see black,
> >>> > but the truth is if you can't see,
> you *really*
> >>> can't see. Anything. My
> >>> > eyes don't work because they're
> deformed, too
> >>> small, covered in scar
> >>> > tissue, and may not even have an optic
> nerve. So my
> >>> brain doesn't get any
> >>> > feedback from them, therefore, how could
> I see
> >>> anything, even black?
> >>> > That's what I ask myself every time
> someone asks
> >>> me if it's awful always
> >>> > being in the dark. *smile*
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Grandma Cindy"
> >>> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > To:
> <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 11:16 PM
> >>> > Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: ot blind
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> You're making great sense--and
> your analogies
> >>> are good ones, though I
> >>> >> admit I don't understand green
> being
> >>> lemon--which is yellow, by the way.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> If I had to describe green, though
> there are many,
> >>> many different shades
> >>> >> in the natural world, I would
> describe it as being
> >>> cool, like the feel of
> >>> >> cool weather or a cool, light breeze.
> Red, yes, is
> >>> hot. yellow, I'd say
> >>> >> the feel of the warm sun on your
> skin. Orange,
> >>> you're right--the taste of
> >>> >> orange is a good one--maybe the taste
> of the drink
> >>> Tang, too. BLue--cool
> >>> >> like the water in a lake. Purple--of
> course there
> >>> are many different
> >>> >> shades, from pale lavender to a
> deeper
> >>> purple--let's say the pale
> >>> >> lavender would be like
> >>> >> the smell of lilacs or the feel of
> silk, and a
> >>> more "regular" shade of
> >>> >> purple...like a bruise, perhaps,
> since bruises
> >>> turn purple and sometimes
> >>> >> blue--or velvet. Black and
> brown--since so many
> >>> men's shoes are brown,
> >>> >> I'd describe brown as smooth
> leather, and
> >>> black--well, if you're blind,
> >>> >> isn't everything black? or is
> that a myth.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> As far as missing what you don't
> know, I
> >>> originally was going to add "or
> >>> >> know about," because of things
> like driving
> >>> and travel--places I haven't
> >>> >> been but know about i do miss not
> going to. But I
> >>> thought that would
> >>> >> confuse the issue. smile
> >>> >>
> >>> >> G.Cindy
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
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