[bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists

  • From: "A. J. Nolte" <a.j.nolte@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:25:27 -0400

Ah, so you go in for the heavy philosophy.
THS was, I think, more of an improvization than the other two. I thought it was interesting, but the living heads bit was more than a little strange, and I was surprised to see Lewis going in for such conspiratorial thinking. My favorite work by Lewis is Screwtape Letters. Demons as bureaucrats is a nye on irresistible image... ----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 6:04 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I'll agree with you partly, but I thought Perelandra was even better. The only time I got a real sense of wonder from Lewis' work was in that book. He scaled some exalted heights there, especially at the end, and I did admire his work in that one. Unfortunately, he had to follow it up with That Hideous Strength, which was in my opinion, dare I say it?, hideous. 

Evan
----- Original Message ----- From: "A. J. Nolte" <a.j.nolte@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
Well said. I think actually sci-fi is a much better vehicle for messages, perhaps because you can't really talk science without agendas. Out of the Silent Planet definitely shows some of Lewis' better world-building skills. 

A. j.
----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
Well, even though I've enjoyed it so far, I wouldn't compare Dark Materials with Harry Potter as far as storytelling is concerned, much less The Lord of the Rings. As Ann wrote, Pullman, like Lewis has an agenda, and it does show. Rowling made have had some points to make, but she was not writing explicitly Message Books as Lewis and Pullman were. Her main "agenda" was to tell a good tale, and she certainly did that.
The same applies to Tolkien. He clearly states in his Foreword to The Fellowship that LOTR has no inner meaning or message. He put a lot of time and thought into it's creation, and so his views on various things, such as technology for instance, cannot help but come out, but that is not the same thing at all as consciously writing a book to send a message. That is precisely why Tolkien's world is so much more vividly alive in terms of its history and geography than that of Pullman or Lewis, since Tolkien created his world for the sake of the creation itself, for the telling of a good story, whereas Pullman and Lewis really didn't care as much about that sort of thing. In their books, the story is usually subordinate to the message; and such books are never as interesting to me. I may enjoy them to some extent, but I am less likely to think about them later, and less likely to return to them as I have many times to LOTR and expect to do with Harry Potter. 

Evan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Elfqueen" <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:29 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I can't help it. I could do it anyway, I guess, but I'd rather let Harry Potter become a thing of the past with Mom first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:28 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I enjoyed the first book as well. I plan to read the sequels this summer. Wherever he got his ideas from, it is how an author uses those ideas and what his characters do with them that ultimately count in a story. Most authors don't get their ideas from their own heads. He certainly seems to have cared more about setting and characterization than Lewis did in Narnia, although I admit that isn't saying much.
It is saddening to me to hear that in the 21st century in America that someone "would be in trouble with a whole lot of people" if they were to read it. 

Evan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne Wilson" <suzannewilson@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
Atheist he may be, but I thought the His Dark Materials series was worth the read, particularly the first book. I liked the concept of daemons, and some of the relationships that developed during that first book. 

Sue
----- Original Message ----- From: "Elfqueen" <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I haven't read his stuff yet. Mostly because I would be in trouble with a whole lot of people if I did. Sure, I could read it without anyone's knowledge, but it just wouldn't feel right. And I'm not terribly interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. J. Nolte" <a.j.nolte@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:20 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I'll read something I disagree with if it's (A) well-written and (B) doesn't have stupid premises. The exception to this rule is Philip Pullman. I've heard his books are well-written, and his premise is interesting and all...as long as you recognize that, despite his avowed atheism, he stole the whole bloody thing lock stock and barrel from the gnostics. So I figure I may as well go back to the source, as it were. <g> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elfqueen" <elfqueen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
I agree with you. I'm not Catholic, but I can appreciate what you're saying. I used to think that I should never ever ever read anything that would even make me consider anything outside my beliefs (just to make it clear that I'm aware, I'll go ahead and say I was naive and silly and overly prim about it), and then I found myself in high school, where I didn't have a choice. Wake-up call! Now I'll voluntarily read things I don't agree with. It has helped me as a person, to strengthen and shape my own beliefs, and as a writer, to appreciate different points of view and differente ways people process things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francesca Marinaro" <poetprodigy7@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
My issue with the Catholic church banning books is not from a religious standpoint, but from a literary one because I'm an English teacher and a gradduate student, and being well-read entails exposing yourself to alternative points of view. This does not mean you have to swallow or agree 
with that point of view.
When I was in high school, we were required to read Portrait of the Artist as a young man(which I despised, but that's beside the point). Anyway, there were large portions of that book that were either anti-Catholic or promoted an extreme form of the religion. I went to a catholic high school, and my english teacher's very words were "When you read this, put on your Catholic armor." By that she meant, read it, learn to appreciate it as a great work 
of literature, but by all means, do not buy into it.
That, in my opinion, is a much more sensible position, but then again, perhaps there aren't a lot of sensible people out there. (I say that with 
tongue firmly in cheek by the way).

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Anne Lynskey [mailto:yeksnyl1953am@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:53 PM
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Catholic banned books and movies lists
Yes, the most notable banned book and movie by the Catholic Church I remember was Gone with the Wind. For years. Because of the last line of the book. Then there were things like 77 Sunset Strip and Paten Place which
were also notably banned. My dad was good at keeping up with what we were and were not allowed to watch, church or not. And then for every hour of TV, we had to read a book for 3 hours. Of course I had it easy because I had my books on those big 33 RPM records. All those good fairy tales. I loved to listen to them. My mom would make my sister and I take our baths on Saturday night when Perry Mason was on so she could watch in peace. I can still hear the famous theme song drifting up the stairs into the bathroom. I have that as a ring on my cell phone. I made my own with the real theme, not the junk theme Verizon has for sale. It brings back many 
wonderful childhood memories.

--
Mary Anne Lynskey

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