Miriam,
I heard that Bernie had some 27 thousand supporters at his last
rally...was it in Brooklyn?
I did hear what turned out to be a non information cat and dog fight
on Democracy Now, this morning. I began by assuming my neutral brain
position. Robert Sheer made some good points in the beginning. When
I first heard the woman...I can't recall her name...I thought she
sounded reasonable and very intelligent. But she began sounding as if
she were talking down to Robert Sheer, also a very bright guy, and
sounding as if she were smirking at some of his points. When he
talked about Clinton's past positions, she glibly brushed them aside,
saying that this was ancient history and we needed to come into the
present and move forward. I may have not put down her exact words,
but that was the sense of it.
And then she put down Sanders because he has preached the same message
for 40 years, and in addition he has little to show in the way of
sponsored legislation.
In her mind, this made Clinton the better candidate because she was
flexible and kept up with the current trends. Again, my words.
But Sanders 40 years of beating the same drum is exactly why I think
he might provide some leadership, rather than providing some
"followership".
And when a congressman is consistent in putting forward legislation
that challenges the Establishment, of course he is not going to have a
huge portfolio of successful bills. Anyway, before they fell apart,
which turned me off, the Clinton Lady was making some really great
points...for Bernie.
This thing of everybody talking and shouting over one another is not
conductive to stimulating my brain. Thom Hartman does some of this on
his RT-TV Program. He calls it the "Ramble". I call it, "Time to
change channels".
So Amy Goodman is on a 100 city tour, celebrating democracy now's 20
years of broadcasting. I really appreciate her work, and that of
Alternative Radio and Thom Hartman, and others who offer thoughtful
programming. It's rather pleasant being treated like intelligent
adults, rather than the insulting approach the commercial media seems
to feel is all we can handle.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/15/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, I know you must have heard Democracy Now today. I was just listening
to it. That debate, which turned into a real argument, between Robert Sheer
and the Clinton supporter is illustrative of the real split in the
Democratic party right now. What most distressed me, was her repeated smug
statement that Clinton is going to win the Presidency and that we need to
just accept this and do as much as we can to, as she put it, move things
along. She sees Bernie as an inferior candidate because he's had the same
message for 40 years and because, she says, he never accomplished anything
in congress. The point is that he hasn't joined the club and played by the
rules and done all the compromising, I suppose. From the point of view of
the political class, he's an outsider. And given the political machine in
New York, it will be a miracle if he wins the state. Schumer sent out an
email yesterday, saying that he prefers Hillary and asking us, the voters,
to tell him what issues are important to us, he provided a list and
economic
inequality and everlasting war were not on it, and asking us whom we
planned
to vote for. Yesterday, WNYC had a political reporter talking about how
inconsequential Bernie is. Whatever else Bernie is, he must be very brave
and dedicated to go through all of this.
Miriamt
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 4:10 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary
if We Have To
You point out a very real problem. And I am guilty of doing it, too.
I hear something that jumps out at me, or I hear the reaction of someone
else who is reacting to a point, and I blow it out of proportion. But
having said that, I do believe Bernie and Jane will vote for Hillary
because
they believe that the System can be made to bring relief to the working
people. My thinking is that all we can do is to put off the inevitable. I
can vote for Sanders, even knowing this, because he will try to do right
for
the working folks on many
basic issues. But Clinton is not being straight with the people.
She will turn her back on the workers when she has to pick between the
People or the Empire.
While I have swung to and fro in this political wind, I am more and more
convinced that a vote for Clinton is a vote against the working class. I
know some who would say that this is equally true with a vote for Sanders.,
but as I've said before, I will not invest any more of myself in the
Empire's government. That might not be a satisfactory answer, but it is
what it is.
Carl Jarvis
On 4/15/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, the thing about that article is that the headline is misleading.end.
There
was a video of the interview and actually, although she did make the
statement that she and Bernie would vote for Hillary if Hillary were
the nominee, it was a comment that she made in passing, not at all an
important part of the interview, and not with any emphasis. But when
you read that headline and the article, it's like she's undercut the
whole point of her husband's campaign. I've been reading a lot about
this campaign and watching a number of videos of Bernie's speeches.
All of the reporting on it, the analyzing, I think that it all
distorts what people originally say and the meaning of what they say.
For example, if you listen to Bernie's interview with the editorial
board of the Daily News, the meaning of his answers seems very
different than it does when reported because a lot is taken out of
context. And both campaigns are doing all they can to whip up support
for their candidates so in that process, a lot gets distorted also.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 11:39 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote
Hillary if We Have To
Jane Sanders is speaking as a supporter of the very System that her
husband is criticizing. Although, Bernie Sanders is in no way calling
for a true revolution. But in saying they will vote for Clinton, if
Sanders is not selected, Jane Sanders has made her position clear.
She will support Clinton even though she is supporting the very System
that seems to have confused her, and which she knows is not
democratic. She doesn't seem to understand that the Democratic
Party's use of Super Delegates and their rule that a voter must have
been a registered Democrat by last November, as designed by the Party
to Protect the Party. When an organization is more concerned with
protecting itself than in serving its members, its usefulness is at an
Carl Jarvis
On 4/14/16, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
race.
Excerpt: "In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting
Jane Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the
need for party unity, and missing her family."
Bernie Sanders with his wife Jane Sanders. (photo: Brian
Snyder/Reuters)
Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary if We Have To By Tim
Teeman, The Daily Beast
14 April 16
In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting Jane
Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the need for
party unity, and missing her family.
Jane Sanders and her husband Bernie will support Hillary Clinton if
the latter beats Bernie Sanders in the Democratic presidential
nomination
Senate."
Mrs. Sanders, in an interview with The Daily Beast on Wednesday, said
they would hope Bernie's supporters would follow their lead.
Conversely, if Bernie Sanders secured the nomination, Mrs. Sanders
said she hoped Clinton and her supporters would support him.
In a wide-ranging, candid interview, Mrs. Sanders also said the
superdelegate system-currently weighted significantly in Clinton's
favor-was unfair, yet predicted that she is hopeful that a number of
those superdelegates, and their thousands of votes, could be
convinced to switch their support from Clinton to her husband.
The Daily Beast spoke to Mrs. Sanders with just hours to go before
Bernie Sanders's rally in New York's Washington Square, and just a
week until New York Democrats pick a primary winner.
"I know Donald Trump has complained about the system," Mrs. Sanders
said.
"We're not going to complain about it. We knew the rules going in. We
don't like the rules. We don't think it's good for democracy. I think
it's crazy that in New York anybody who wanted to vote for Bernie had
to make a change last October to say they were in the Democratic
Party. Anybody who is independent cannot vote."
Mrs. Sanders said her husband's campaign was "trying to reinvigorate
the party and we are. We are bringing many, many more people in
across the country and yet in New York they're slamming the door on
those people. They can't have a voice. That seems counterproductive
to what the Democratic Party wants to accomplish in terms of winning
not just the presidency, but to win governors' seats and seats in the
House and
She dismissed Clinton campaign claims that Bernie's camp wasanything," she said, laughing.
attempting to "rig" the election by "flipping" the votes of
superdelegates. "How could we be rigging it? We're not in charge of
"Superdelegates, first off, I think, are silly. They're 30 percent ofhalf.
the vote that a candidate needs to become the nominee. How fair is
that? I am a voter. I have one vote, yet you're a superdelegate and
count for thousands and thousands of votes. That doesn't make any
sense at all. 'One person, one vote' is what democracy is supposed to
be about."
The "rigging" claims did not "make sense," Mrs. Sanders said.
"In 2008, many superdelegates had signed up for Hillary Clinton, very
early, before Barack Obama."
The same was true this year, though this time the opponent was Bernie
Sanders, she said.
"In the end in 2008, the superdelegates moved to Barack Obama. This
year, the superdelegates have not been counted yet, their votes have
not been cast. Some are saying now they support Hillary Clinton.
About
"If the superdelegates are using their judgment, my hope is that theyhear."
are looking at what is happening in this race-that he [Bernie
Sanders] has won eight of the nine most recent races, that he has far
better polling numbers against all the Republicans, that he can get
not just Democrats but Independents.
"Even in his last Senate race, 25 percent of Republicans in our state
voted for him-and we can do that nationally as well. He's in a much
better position to be the Democratic Party candidate. Superdelegates
will make up their minds. It has nothing to do with rigging, but it
could happen just like it happened in 2008."
On the more rancorous exchanges between the Sanders and Clinton
campaigns, Mrs. Sanders said, "I think if you compare it to the
Republicans it's nothing. I think it's been difficult for us to have
distortions of the record, when really what we want to focus on is a
clear choice between the two candidates."
For Mrs. Sanders, "there is a stark difference" between her husband
and Hillary Clinton, "in a number of areas. That's what we should be
talking about, that's good for democracy, that's what people need to
When asked if she ever advised her husband to moderate his tone, Mrs.Clinton back then."
Sanders said he was being criticized over a statement he made in
response to the Clinton strategy to "disqualify and defeat" him, "and
worry about uniting the party later."
Mrs. Sanders was referring to an unnamed top Clinton advisor's battle
plan, as conveyed to CNN last week.
"Then we watched surrogate after surrogate and Secretary Clinton
herself on the air attempting to disqualify him, which means to make
[him seem] unqualified," Mrs. Sanders said.
She said that her husband, in response, "had said 'Let's talk about
the issues' about what makes somebody unqualified.
"His attempt may not have been as articulate as we might have
preferred, but his attempt was to turn the page to say, 'Let's look
at
trade: Secretary Clinton is pro-free trade, pro-NAFTA, pro permanent
trade relations with China, and pro-TPP [the Trans-Pacific
Partnership], until the very end, after it was too late.'"
Her husband, she added, had noted that Clinton had voted in favor of
the Iraq War, having seen the same information that had led Bernie
Sanders to vote against it.
Mrs. Sanders said, "Secretary Clinton has a regime change policy that
was borne out of Libya. Bernie does not believe in regime change
policy. He was trying to say, 'OK, if you're looking at who's
qualified, let's look at the qualifications you're looking for as a
voter.' I think the media has made more of it than either candidate."
This reporter asked Mrs. Sanders if she was concerned that voters in
both the Clinton and Sanders camps were so partisan they would not
vote for the other Democratic candidate in a general election. She
replied that "they [Democrat voters] were feeling annoyed at both
sides. If Bernie wins, hopefully Secretary Clinton's supporters will
support him, and if she wins we hope our supporters will support her.
It's nowhere near as rancorous as it was between Barack Obama and
Hilary
Would her husband support Clinton if she became the candidate?same ideas.'"
"I think both of them will support the other," said Mrs. Sanders.
Her husband's temperament has also come under scrutiny. When asked if
she had ever advised him to "take it down a notch," Mrs. Sanders
said, "No, no, no.
"I think everybody has seemed annoyed at times," she added. "I
remember Secretary Clinton looking quite angry. I think we're talking
about important issues that affect people's lives. 25 percent of our
children in America live in poverty. Yeah, that's something to be
angry about. Climate change is real, and the fossil fuel industry is
pouring tons and tons of money into campaign contributions. That's
something to be angry about.
"You look: 18,500 people in the South Bronx last week. Nobody was
worried about his temperament. They were wild about his ideas he was
bringing forth and saying, 'We are with you, we are going to work for
the
When asked if her husband's success had surprised them both-givenfair shake."
that early consensus seemed to favor a smooth coronation for
Clinton-Mrs.
Sanders
replied: "We knew that his ideas were mainstream American ideas. If
he had a fair hearing we knew they would resonate. We were surprised
at how fervently they have been embraced by young voters, and how
many people who are disenfranchised voters: people who had given up
on the system are coming back.
"It has been humbling and quite an honor to have that kind of support
and encouragement and commitment to the future. So I think we were
surprised to that. We were more intellectually thinking they would
resonate. We didn't realize emotionally how much they would resonate
both for people and for us."
For Mrs. Sanders personally, the campaign has proven "exhilarating
and wonderful in terms of meeting so many people around the country,
and learning about specific issues"-she cited "Latinos," "immigration,"
and "Native Americans"-but also in terms of understanding and hearing
that the general issues that Bernie Sanders raises are, she said,
issues of concern for all Americans.
"They want a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
They want a government that recognizes that at the center of policy
should be a concern for Americans' quality of life, and their ability
to live life in security and dignity by just working hard and getting
a
Had the campaign bought her more or less turmoil than she had expected?race.
"I wouldn't say turmoil," Mrs. Sanders replied. "I would say it's
hard to be away from the kids and the grandkids as much, but it's an
honor to be able to be part of this. And it's been very invigorating
for me to see the support, interest, and commitment to transform this
country to what we all want it to be ideally, and people are willing
to do the work and support Bernie in that endeavor. It's wonderful."
I asked Mrs. Sanders if she had thought about the possibility of
living in the White House.
"I haven't, you know," she said. "I mean, I'm more focused on what we
could do if he gets into the White House."
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valid.
Bernie Sanders with his wife Jane Sanders. (photo: Brian
Snyder/Reuters)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/13/jane-sanders-we-woul
d
-vote-
hillary-but-the-superdelegate-system-sucks.htmlhttp://www.thedailybea
s
t.com/
articles/2016/04/13/jane-sanders-we-would-vote-hillary-but-the-superd
e
legate
-system-sucks.html
Jane Sanders: Bernie and I Will Vote Hillary if We Have To By Tim
Teeman, The Daily Beast
14 April 16
In a candid interview with Tim Teeman, a straight-shooting Jane
Sanders talks superdelegates, her husband's temperament, the need for
party unity, and missing her family.
ane Sanders and her husband Bernie will support Hillary Clinton if
the latter beats Bernie Sanders in the Democratic presidential
nomination
Senate."
Mrs. Sanders, in an interview with The Daily Beast on Wednesday, said
they would hope Bernie's supporters would follow their lead.
Conversely, if Bernie Sanders secured the nomination, Mrs. Sanders
said she hoped Clinton and her supporters would support him.
In a wide-ranging, candid interview, Mrs. Sanders also said the
superdelegate system-currently weighted significantly in Clinton's
favor-was unfair, yet predicted that she is hopeful that a number of
those superdelegates, and their thousands of votes, could be
convinced to switch their support from Clinton to her husband.
The Daily Beast spoke to Mrs. Sanders with just hours to go before
Bernie Sanders's rally in New York's Washington Square, and just a
week until New York Democrats pick a primary winner.
"I know Donald Trump has complained about the system," Mrs. Sanders
said.
"We're not going to complain about it. We knew the rules going in. We
don't like the rules. We don't think it's good for democracy. I think
it's crazy that in New York anybody who wanted to vote for Bernie had
to make a change last October to say they were in the Democratic
Party. Anybody who is independent cannot vote."
Mrs. Sanders said her husband's campaign was "trying to reinvigorate
the party and we are. We are bringing many, many more people in
across the country and yet in New York they're slamming the door on
those people. They can't have a voice. That seems counterproductive
to what the Democratic Party wants to accomplish in terms of winning
not just the presidency, but to win governors' seats and seats in the
House and
She dismissed Clinton campaign claims that Bernie's camp wasanything," she said, laughing.
attempting to "rig" the election by "flipping" the votes of
superdelegates. "How could we be rigging it? We're not in charge of
"Superdelegates, first off, I think, are silly. They're 30 percent ofhalf.
the vote that a candidate needs to become the nominee. How fair is
that? I am a voter. I have one vote, yet you're a superdelegate and
count for thousands and thousands of votes. That doesn't make any
sense at all. 'One person, one vote' is what democracy is supposed to
be about."
The "rigging" claims did not "make sense," Mrs. Sanders said.
"In 2008, many superdelegates had signed up for Hillary Clinton, very
early, before Barack Obama."
The same was true this year, though this time the opponent was Bernie
Sanders, she said.
"In the end in 2008, the superdelegates moved to Barack Obama. This
year, the superdelegates have not been counted yet, their votes have
not been cast. Some are saying now they support Hillary Clinton.
About
"If the superdelegates are using their judgment, my hope is that theyhear."
are looking at what is happening in this race-that he [Bernie
Sanders] has won eight of the nine most recent races, that he has far
better polling numbers against all the Republicans, that he can get
not just Democrats but Independents.
"Even in his last Senate race, 25 percent of Republicans in our state
voted for him-and we can do that nationally as well. He's in a much
better position to be the Democratic Party candidate. Superdelegates
will make up their minds. It has nothing to do with rigging, but it
could happen just like it happened in 2008."
On the more rancorous exchanges between the Sanders and Clinton
campaigns, Mrs. Sanders said, "I think if you compare it to the
Republicans it's nothing. I think it's been difficult for us to have
distortions of the record, when really what we want to focus on is a
clear choice between the two candidates."
For Mrs. Sanders, "there is a stark difference" between her husband
and Hillary Clinton, "in a number of areas. That's what we should be
talking about, that's good for democracy, that's what people need to
When asked if she ever advised her husband to moderate his tone, Mrs.Clinton back then."
Sanders said he was being criticized over a statement he made in
response to the Clinton strategy to "disqualify and defeat" him, "and
worry about uniting the party later."
Mrs. Sanders was referring to an unnamed top Clinton advisor's battle
plan, as conveyed to CNN last week.
"Then we watched surrogate after surrogate and Secretary Clinton
herself on the air attempting to disqualify him, which means to make
[him seem] unqualified," Mrs. Sanders said.
She said that her husband, in response, "had said 'Let's talk about
the issues' about what makes somebody unqualified.
"His attempt may not have been as articulate as we might have
preferred, but his attempt was to turn the page to say, 'Let's look
at
trade: Secretary Clinton is pro-free trade, pro-NAFTA, pro permanent
trade relations with China, and pro-TPP [the Trans-Pacific
Partnership], until the very end, after it was too late.'"
Her husband, she added, had noted that Clinton had voted in favor of
the Iraq War, having seen the same information that had led Bernie
Sanders to vote against it.
Mrs. Sanders said, "Secretary Clinton has a regime change policy that
was borne out of Libya. Bernie does not believe in regime change
policy. He was trying to say, 'OK, if you're looking at who's
qualified, let's look at the qualifications you're looking for as a
voter.' I think the media has made more of it than either candidate."
This reporter asked Mrs. Sanders if she was concerned that voters in
both the Clinton and Sanders camps were so partisan they would not
vote for the other Democratic candidate in a general election. She
replied that "they [Democrat voters] were feeling annoyed at both
sides. If Bernie wins, hopefully Secretary Clinton's supporters will
support him, and if she wins we hope our supporters will support her.
It's nowhere near as rancorous as it was between Barack Obama and
Hilary
Would her husband support Clinton if she became the candidate?same ideas.'"
"I think both of them will support the other," said Mrs. Sanders.
Her husband's temperament has also come under scrutiny. When asked if
she had ever advised him to "take it down a notch," Mrs. Sanders
said, "No, no, no.
"I think everybody has seemed annoyed at times," she added. "I
remember Secretary Clinton looking quite angry. I think we're talking
about important issues that affect people's lives. 25 percent of our
children in America live in poverty. Yeah, that's something to be
angry about. Climate change is real, and the fossil fuel industry is
pouring tons and tons of money into campaign contributions. That's
something to be angry about.
"You look: 18,500 people in the South Bronx last week. Nobody was
worried about his temperament. They were wild about his ideas he was
bringing forth and saying, 'We are with you, we are going to work for
the
When asked if her husband's success had surprised them both-givenfair shake."
that early consensus seemed to favor a smooth coronation for
Clinton-Mrs.
Sanders
replied: "We knew that his ideas were mainstream American ideas. If
he had a fair hearing we knew they would resonate. We were surprised
at how fervently they have been embraced by young voters, and how
many people who are disenfranchised voters: people who had given up
on the system are coming back.
"It has been humbling and quite an honor to have that kind of support
and encouragement and commitment to the future. So I think we were
surprised to that. We were more intellectually thinking they would
resonate. We didn't realize emotionally how much they would resonate
both for people and for us."
For Mrs. Sanders personally, the campaign has proven "exhilarating
and wonderful in terms of meeting so many people around the country,
and learning about specific issues"-she cited "Latinos," "immigration,"
and "Native Americans"-but also in terms of understanding and hearing
that the general issues that Bernie Sanders raises are, she said,
issues of concern for all Americans.
"They want a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
They want a government that recognizes that at the center of policy
should be a concern for Americans' quality of life, and their ability
to live life in security and dignity by just working hard and getting
a
Had the campaign bought her more or less turmoil than she had expected?
"I wouldn't say turmoil," Mrs. Sanders replied. "I would say it's
hard to be away from the kids and the grandkids as much, but it's an
honor to be able to be part of this. And it's been very invigorating
for me to see the support, interest, and commitment to transform this
country to what we all want it to be ideally, and people are willing
to do the work and support Bernie in that endeavor. It's wonderful."
I asked Mrs. Sanders if she had thought about the possibility of
living in the White House.
"I haven't, you know," she said. "I mean, I'm more focused on what we
could do if he gets into the White House."
http://e-max.it/posizionamento-siti-web/socialize
http://e-max.it/posizionamento-siti-web/socialize
