[bksvol-discuss] Re: using machines for what they were meant to do - Long Post
- From: james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:36:52 -0400
Hi E.
That is a good thing if the same publisher always uses the same settings,
but that may not be the case. The thing to do would be to get all
publishers to submit books in the same format. If that can't be done, then
have each publisher agree to submit in a particular format. Predictability
is what we would want.
Thanks.
Jim
James D Homme, Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
"The difference between those who get what they wish for and those who
don't is action. Therefore, every action you take is a complete
success,regardless of the results." -- Jerrold Mundis
Highmark internal only: For usability and accessibility:
http://highwire.highmark.com/sites/iwov/hwt093/
"E."
<thoth93@earthlin
k.net> To
Sent by: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
bksvol-discuss-bo cc
unce@xxxxxxxxxxxx
g Subject
[bksvol-discuss] Re: using machines
for what they were meant to do -
09/10/2008 01:03 Long Post
PM
Please respond to
bksvol-discuss@fr
eelists.org
I only did a bit of Cobol maintenancing programming in the eighties
so my skill is limited.
Your example makes me wonder if software can be told which publisher
the book being worked on comes from. Then the machine do this in such
and such a case and something different when dealing with a different
publisher.
E.
At 12:51 PM 9/10/2008, you wrote:
>Hi E.
>Unfortunately, machines like it better when they can predict what they are
>going to process. Using mark up is one way to attempt to make it easier on
>the machines to do what They do. If this works out, publishers may be able
>to automate creating the mark up the bookshare software needs, which is
>good. Humans can help to do that, but unfortunately, as volunteers, we may
>not have the luxury of being able to do it right away. It may be possible
>to do some of it though.
>
>Here is one example where humans may need to intervene. When you scan a
>book from publisher A, they use font A, size A, style A to mark up their
>chapter headings. When you scan a book from publisher B, they use Font B,
>Size B, Style B to mark up their chapter headings. A machine would have no
>way to know how to deal with that ahead of time. Human judgement must come
>into play. You might be able to take your scanning software and, when you
>see patterns, tell your scanning software to replace Font B, Size B, Style
>B with Font A, Size A, Style A, assuming that there is a convention that
>everyone decided on for which fonts, styles, and sizes chapter headings
>will be marked up at. Then, you could stipulate to the machine that it
will
>look for Font A, Size A, Style A, and mark up chapter headers with
whatever
>DAISY code it does that with. Or, you may be able to create Word macros
>that can look through documents and insert four colons in front of any
>paragraphs whose text has a certain Word style or font attributes. For any
>documents that don't adhere to whatever conventions we come up with,
humans
>are going to have to intervene at some point, because there is bound to be
>text that the machines can't process. The machines should be smart enough
>to reject a book, act like a compiler, and spit out messages that say that
>on line n it didn't understand the formatting, so it left it alone. Humans
>would have to go in and fix the issue and run the book through the machine
>again.
>
>Computers aren't magical. They're pretty stupid. We have to think for
them.
>Once things are set up, they can take a lot of the work away from us and
>make us more efficient, which is something I am for, because that would
get
>tons more books into the system.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jim
>
>James D Homme, Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>
>"The difference between those who get what they wish for and those who
>don't is action. Therefore, every action you take is a complete
>success,regardless of the results." -- Jerrold Mundis
>Highmark internal only: For usability and accessibility:
>http://highwire.highmark.com/sites/iwov/hwt093/
>
>
>
> "E."
> <thoth93@earthlin
> k.net>
To
> Sent by: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> bksvol-discuss-bo
cc
> unce@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> g
Subject
> [bksvol-discuss] using machines
for
> what they were meant to do
> 09/10/2008 12:17
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> bksvol-discuss@fr
> eelists.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>This is a rather long message. I am going to speak about hardware and
>software as it relates to bookshare books. I may wax a bit
>philosohical. The underlying path is a matter of philosophy.
>
>Bookshare is adding many many books to our library at a ever more
>rapid rate. Bookshare could get away with inferior tools like the
>stripper in its younger days. Kind of like a teenager driving an old
>car that breaks down a lot.
>
>As bookshare has matured, the quality of some of its underlying
>software has come up for criticism. That includes the stripper,
>braille translation program, and other conversion tools.
>I want to use my human brain to do things machines cannot do. A
>properly configured hardware and software conbination will translate
>correctly, and strip elegantly. (pause for fantasy please)
>
>Returning from fantasy to reality. I know the up front expense may be
>high. I know calculators now do what we used to write out by hand.
>Let's all work together so humans can do what they do best and let's
>use technology as well as we can in the process.
>
>Relying on "brute force" human methods is so expense in terms of human
>energy.
>
>I am truly concerned about the learning curve. Maybe if I know more
>from engineering, it will be easier to understand the underlying
>philosophy of what seems to me "brute force" methods. I know I can
>grind coffee beans by hand and save electricity but do I want to?
>
>E.
>
>At 07:39 AM 9/10/2008, you wrote:
> >You are probably right E, but, given our experiences with the
> >bookshare tool, do we really want to go down that road?
> >
> >Maybe if the daisy converter could put the codes in, and we could
> >double check to make sure they are right.
> >
> >Bob
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 3:10 AM
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: where to download my novel
> >
> >
> >>I go to conferences where they have seminars discussing the making
> >>of Daisy books.I always thought engineering and software took care
> >>of converting files to Daisy format. I am willing to insert tags.
> >>Yet I wonder if this can perhaps be automated with conversion software.
> >>
> >>Asking volunteers to hand insert appropriate Daisy tags instead of
> >>creating daisy files with appropriate software confuses me. Perhaps
> >>it is because I know little about the software used to create Daisy
>formatting.
> >>
> >>E.
> >>
> >>
> >>At 03:15 PM 9/9/2008, you wrote:
> >>>"An Involuntary King: A Tale of Anglo Saxon England" will be on
> >>>Bookshare... but in the meantime, you can download a PDF of it at
> >>>
> >>><http://www.sendspace.com/file/3fjbxt
>http://www.sendspace.com/file/3fjbxt
> >>>
> >>>They only hold it for a few days, so if you don't get to it just
> >>>let me know and i will upload it again.
> >>>
> >>>Can't wait to hear what you think of the book.
> >>>
> >>>It's rated R, by the way.. graphic violence and sex.
> >>>
> >>>Nan Hawthorne
> >>><http://www.nanhawthorne.com>www.nanhawthorne.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>__________ NOD32 3429 (20080909) Information __________
> >>>
> >>>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >>><http://www.eset.com>http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> >>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
> >>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the
subject
>line.
> >>
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
> >list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
>line.
> >
> >
> >__________ NOD32 3432 (20080910) Information __________
> >
> >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >http://www.eset.com
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
of
>available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
>list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
line.
>
>
>__________ NOD32 3432 (20080910) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
Other related posts:
