Bill,
I hear misinformation and misinterpretations of the rules all the time. As a
competitor, it’s important to know the rules so you can plead your case if the
SO gets it wrong.
There are some situations where a shoot through should not count, such as when
a round goes through “hard cover" and then strikes a target. (2015/4.9.3,
2017/4.9.3) However, It’s important that the stage be set up so either that
can't happen or it’s easily discernible if it does.
Regarding rule 2015/4.1.1, the rules specifically list that as an exception to
the one PE per type rule. So (as you note) it’s one PE per target not engaged
with enough rounds. This is particularly brutal if, for example, the stage has
six targets, three rounds per target and the shooter forgets and only fires two
at each. That is at least 30 points down for misses + one PE for not engaging
in tactical priority (since the shooter did not finish engaging a threat before
moving no to the next) + six PE’s for not firing enough rounds! The new rules
do not list exceptions. So, I’m hoping this rule will revert to a per type
penalty.
Wade
On Dec 17, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Bill Stewart <stewartbill06@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Wade
Great discussion. On those lines, there are a couple items that come up at
a number of club matches: how to score penalties for limited or unlimited
and and how to score shoot-throughs with threat and non-threats. I've seen
cases where SO's and shooters think if you hit a non-threat that is in front
of a threat, you get penalty but don't get hit, but get reverse if threat is
in front. Also, there seem to be questions on how to handle a limited with
too many hits, and how to handle UNLIMITED where not enough shots were fired.
Here are quotes on both from the 2015 and 2017 rulebook (emphasis added by
me):
MULTIPLE PROCEDURAL PENALTIES FOR UNLIMITED AND LIMITED (2015 and 2017 appear
to be identical except for 5.1.2 wording)
From 2015 rulebook
5.1.2 Only one (1) PE is assessed for each type of infraction in a string of
fire. If the shooter commits more than one type of infraction, such as using
the wrong specified hand and firing an incorrect number of shots, a separate
PE is assessed for each type of infraction. There are several exceptions to
the “one PE per infraction” rule.
4.1 Unlimited Scoring
4.1.1 Unlimited Scoring allows the shooter to shoot at each target as much as
deemed necessary, as long as this does not violate other IDPA rules. The best
hits on a target are used for score. This gives the shooter the option to
make up misses or hits that he/she is not satisfied with, to improve their
score. When the shooter does not fire enough rounds at a target, the unfired
rounds are counted as misses and a Procedural Error penalty is assessed for
not following the CoF description. <- this would count for each target where
not enough shots fired
4.2 Limited Scoring
4.2.2 Any extra shots in a string of fire will incur one Procedural Error
penalty per string and for each extra shot one (1) of the best scoring hits
will be taped over before the score is calculated. When the shooter does not
fire enough rounds at a target, the unfired rounds are counted as misses, a
Procedural Error penalty is assessed for not following the CoF description,
and other penalties may apply. <-- so you lose your best hits and get scored
your worst hits
From 2017 Rulebook
5.1.2 One (1) PE is assessed for each type of infraction. If the shooter
commits more than one type of infraction, such as using the wrong specified
hand and firing an incorrect number of shots, a separate PE is assessed for
each type of infraction. Cover violations: The number of cover PEs cannot
exceed the number of cover positions.
4.1 Unlimited Scoring
4.1.1 Unlimited Scoring allows the shooter to shoot at each target as much as
deemed necessary, as long as this does not violate other IDPA rules. The best
hits on a target are used for score. This gives the shooter the option to
make up misses or hits that he or she are not satisfied with to improve their
score. When the shooter does not fire enough rounds at a target, the unfired
rounds are counted as misses and a Procedural Error penalty is assessed for
not following the CoF description.
4.2 Limited Scoring
4.2.2 Any extra shots in a string of fire will incur one Procedural Error
penalty per string and for each extra shot one (1) of the best scoring hits
will be taped over before the score is calculated. When the shooter does not
fire enough rounds at a target, the unfired rounds are counted as misses, a
Procedural Error penalty is assessed for not following the CoF description,
and other penalties may apply.
SHOOT THROUGH NON-THREAT (2015 and 2017 appear to be identical)
From 2015 Rulebook
4.12 Shoot Through
On a shoot through of a non-threat target that also strikes a threat target,
the shooter will get the penalty for the non-threat target hit and will get
credit for the scored hit on the threat target. The reverse also applies when
a round on a threat target penetrates a non-threat or threat behind it. All
target shoot throughs count.
From 2017 Rulebook
4.12 Shoot Through
On a shoot through of a non-threat target that also strikes a threat target,
the shooter will get the penalty for the non-threat target hit and will get
credit for the scored hit on the threat target. The reverse also applies when
a round on a threat target penetrates a non-threat or threat behind it. All
target shoot through hits count.
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Wade Price <wade.price@xxxxxxx
<mailto:wade.price@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
The IDPA rule regarding “engaging” a reactive target, e.g. a steel popper, is:
2015/3.2.3.2 <http://3.2.3.2/> A reactive target is deemed to have been
engaged when a minimum of 1 round is fired at the target, regardless of
whether the target reacts. All penalties apply if the shooter does not
re-engage the target until the target reacts or if the shooter unsuccessfully
challenges the reactive target calibration.
So, a shooter could fire one round at a popper, then move on to engage other
targets. If the steel did not fall when they engaged it, they can re-engage
the steel.
If the shooter engaged the steel, but left it left standing at the end of the
string, it is scored as a miss (5 points down) + a FTN penalty (5 seconds).
If the shooter never engaged the steel, then it is 5 points down + a FTN
penalty + a procedural penalty for not following the stage description and
very likely a penalty for not engaging in tactical priority. (I have made
this mistake.)
Wade
--
Sent from whatever electronic device I happen to have in my hand.
