I'd wonder if doing some kind of counterflow heat exchanger inside the
chamber perhaps would help.
I'm imagining a motor vertically, inside the chamber above the nozzle
sits a set of tubes like the boiler from a steam train.
Inject your peroxide into those, have it spray along the inside of the
tubes, thermally decomposing from the hot tubes.
Inject your kerro from the top in some kind of shower head.
For start up electrically heat the tubes, perhaps some kind of induction
heater wrapped around them. Let it melt off and fall out the nozzle in
operation, or not if your really feeling clever.
On 28/08/16 03:40, George William Herbert wrote:
When I commented (couple of weeks ago?) I mentioned multistage preburners.
If we take as given that HTP liquid takes a lot of energy to react then we just stage things to it has that energy. Decompose small HTP stream. Add fuel to moderate excess so it burns to hot fuel rich output gas, hot enough to decompose more HTP. Add more HTP, enough to burn all the fuel and vaporize all the HTP. Run into chamber, add fuel at top and then more peroxide.
Not working dumping it in all at once does not mean can't work.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 27, 2016, at 9:28 AM, qbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:qbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jon
The authors heated the stream using the device on page 5. developed from patent by W.B. Watkins; Patent #US 6,532,741 B2; March 18, 2003).
Figure 1 shows a HTP decomposer patented by Pratt & Whitney The decomposer first catalytically decomposes HTP in a chamber marked as ‘A’.
Additional HTP is introduced via secondary injectors (323 and 319) into the chamber ‘B’.
Along with NASA, Paul Breed, I believe Armadillo, a few unnamed others and myself have all used decomposed HTP to autoignite kerosene (in addition to other fuels) from a decomposed HTP stream, there is no augment about that.
The discussion was, could one start a peroxide kerosene motor by first decomposing the peroxide and then adding the fuel, and then switch over to pure undecomposed peroxide and fuel to continue the run.
The paper shows that the adding of even small amounts of raw peroxide into a hot decomposed stream has detrimental effects on the stream. The big variable here is there was no kerosene used in these experiments. My contention is, and we saw this on a few of out trial runs is that we almost always had a flameout if the catalyst failed. One exception to this was a on a long run the chamber was very hot when the catalyst failed and the motor continued to do the full intended run. In our catalyst failures the catalyst still decomposed some but not of the peroxide. Our team surmised, (we never proved it one way or the other). That heat was been drawn away from the stream to such an extent that the fuel could no longer ignite.
I also contend that if it was that simple to use a raw peroxide flow with a fuel it would have been done a long time ago.
Robert
At 06:53 AM 8/27/2016, you wrote:
Robert qbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:qbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote on 250816:<US06532741-20030318-D00000.jpg>
> I agree with you on adding fuel into ...
> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a424289.pdf <http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a424289.pdf>
I at last hastily read your att. reference, the 2004 "paper" by Sentgupta & al.. Of course HP can be decomposed by heating, boiling, igniting, ... it without a catalyst. When evaporating HP to HTP atmospherically in lab or in the field, the _vapor _above the liquid typically can go bang as soon as it is enriched to 40 wt % of HP. Not in the garage.
As to how the authors would heat an HTP stream their chamber, tube, coil, or ... for it to flow-decompose so no cat pack is required: I found no mention of that.
In the meantime and more recently, similar studies achieved such thermally decomposed HTP to a flow of kerosene. Incl. a demo video in a research hangar. Purdue? I lost the website.
jd
