LuAnn, Every font is different, and there are many different ways to overlap lettering for shadows and have different looks. There is not going to be a standard setting for all. Different alphabets have different column widths, at different sizes the overlap is going to be different, different people like one angle, etc. Have you zoomed in on the stitches and looked at them and see how the overlap works? It used to be a common practice to just duplicate a line of text, then move it to one side, up or down etc. to create the shadow effect. In the shadow feature the moving it to one side and up and down is the angle. This setting is going to be personal preference more then anything. After the lettering is created, and the shadow is created, you can select either of the lettering objects and move them around which is doing the same thing. Zoom in on the stitches and watch what they do at the area where the 2 overlap as you move them around. Notice how the areas where the stitches overlap adjust their stitch length? I have to ask if you are able to get the lettering to look good without the shadow? You say things look choppy? Do you mean jagged edges? Jeff Banks Melco Embroidery Systems ----- Original Message ----- From: "image embriodery" <imageembroidery@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:08 PM Subject: [amayausers] Re: Shadow effect on letters help needed Hey Jeff, Thanks so much for the quick response. I am just finishing up for the day, but I would love to get your input tomorrow, if possible? The lettering needs to go on towels, a cotton blend t-shirt and a jerzees zip-up sweatshirt. The font is Chivalry.. Text "Knot-on-Call" I did the "K" separate so I could drop it below the other text and have the "not" fit up in the "K". The "K" measures 1" tall and the rest is at .75. Very frustrating. Main color navy and the shadow is gold. The "poop" factor is the wording looks choppy and I cannot seem to get the right degree of angle, I'm unsure of the offset and overlap. Is this all just trial and error? If so, it's working, I've run many trials and continue to have errors!! Thanks again.. I'll talk to you tomorrow. LuAnn