If the letter K is standing out on its own it does. -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Karl Proud Sent: 22 May 2014 17:45 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Does the digital age spell the end of Braille? - News - Gadgets and Tech - The Independent Eleanor, You are correct of course, my position wasn't that braille isn't good at working for some people, just that it requires a learning curve that can be a waste of time if it doesn't provide a personal ambition. So, does a K letter in braille always stand for the word knowledge? You learn something new every day. Karl On 22 May 2014, at 04:44 pm, "Eleanor Martha Burke" <eleanormarthaburke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Karl, if I had to write the word knowledge on a Braille machine/keyboard I would write the letter k. If I had to do same on a qwerty keyboard I would have to write knowledge. I think a single character in my example is much faster. -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Karl Proud Sent: 22 May 2014 16:36 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Does the digital age spell the end of Braille? - News - Gadgets and Tech - The Independent George, All great points of course, but they don't take into account the opportunity cost of learning braille to a high standard. You mention that using grade 2 braille is quicker than using a qwerty keyboard for writing notes, but not if a keyboard is already something you have experienced - would you argue that it would be always worth learning if one can already do the things you need using a keyboard? My point is that learning of braille should be seen as a personal choice rather than as a definitive sign of being a productive blind person. Too many discussions conflate braille use with literacy or independence. Karl On 22 May 2014, at 02:36 pm, George Bell <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: An interesting discussion. Perhaps surprising to some is that braille awareness is actually on the increase. However, like many things, how and where it is used is changing, just like many other day to day things. For example, print book sales have fallen because we have devices such as the Kindle. But that doesn't mean we stop using printed paper altogether. Braille itself badly needed an overhaul, but finally we have Unified English Braille, or UEB, which has now been adopted by all major English speaking countries. Few may believe it, but this should have the effect of recusing cost of production. When it comes to taking notes, grade 2 braille is much faster than using a qwerty keyboard. Study of subjects like mathematics and chemistry are usually much easier to understand when produced in braille. Simple labelling is another area where braille comes into its own. For many braille readers, they find they enjoy reading braille books as opposed to falling asleep listening to a talking book. And a fact that is as important as any, is that there are far more braille users employed that those who are not. 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