[Wittrs] Commentary: The Stuart-Bruce Debate
- From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:09:13 -0500
SWM wrote:
>Joseph Polanik wrote:
>SWM wrote:
>>>The point is it's not "another phenomenon", it's an expression (one
>>>of many) of the physical world as all phenomena in the world are.
>>it seems to me that the linguistic knot involved here derives from the
>>practice of using the same word, 'phenomenon', in two names, 'mental
>>phenomena' and 'physical phenomena'.
>>using 'phenomena' in both phrases suggests sameness while using
>>'mental' and 'physical' as qualifiers suggests an essential
>>difference.
>>which suggestion is the stronger?
>>suppose we used a different pair of qualifiers, 'measurable' and
>>'experiencable'.
>>we could then reformulate the hard problem of consciousness research
>>as 'how does a measurable phenomena produce an experiencable
>>phenomena?'.
>>until that question is answered, neither monistic theories nor
>>dualistic theories can be ruled in or out.
>you're right that a good deal of the problem between Bruce and me is
>linguistic. I don't think your proposed solution will make much of a
>difference though because what is measurable is also experienceable
>since we cannot measure without experiencing
to take a concrete example, consider looking at a ripe tomato under
normal viewing conditions. it reflects or radiates electromagnetic
radiation, EMR, in the 650 nm range. that is the measurable phenomenon.
we see red or experience redness. that is the experiencable phenomenon.
how does the measurable phenomenon produce the experiencable phenomenon?
no one knows.
irregardless of how 'mind' is defined, until someone can explain how a
measurable phenomena produces an experiencable phenomena, no one has a
theory of mind --- whether the mind is the brain; or, a stream of
experiences; or, the bundler-together/container of a stream of
experiences.
Joe
--
Nothing Unreal is Self-Aware
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http://what-am-i.net
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