http://groups.yahoo.com/group/urpflanze/ Die Urpflanze ("the primordial plant"), named for an hypothetical plant conceived by Goethe - the concept of which was significant to Wittgenstein's developing ideas about perspicuous representations - is intended to be a free form discussion of topics central or tangential to the life, work, and thought of Ludwig Wittgenstein. Partly in response to experience with other groups, moderation will be kept to a minimum. While the founder's own views might be called "orthodox Wittgensteinianism", varied interpretations and even pointed criticism of Wittgenstein and Wittgensteinian thought are to be encouraged. Three "rules" will apply here: 1. "Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense. But you must pay attention to your nonsense." 2. "Never stay up on the barren heights of cleverness, but come down into the green valleys of silliness." 3. "In a certain sense one cannot take too much care in handling philosophical mistakes, they contain so much truth."