[Wittrs] Re: On the frequency of the term "training" in the writings of Ludwig Wittegstein.
- From: "swmaerske" <SWMirsky@xxxxxxx>
- To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 01:40:16 -0000
You sound like you've got a persecution complex below, Glen. I don't think
anyone on this list has called behaviorists, let alone you, "simpleton" or
"asshole", etc. In fact, it seems like you are doing most of the name calling
here. Why do that? We're interested on this list, at least as far as I can
tell, in exchanging ideas. A lot of that is done simply by putting our own
thoughts forward and arguing for them, sometimes quite robustly, of course. But
that isn't the same as name calling or getting personal.
Frankly, I think it's pretty clear that there are significant affinities
between the later Wittgenstein and behaviorism. I did from the first time I was
exposed to The Blue and Brown Books and the PI. However there also appear to be
significant diversions nor do I think we can simply sum Wittgenstein up as a
proto or pre-behaviorist. It's fine that you are committed to behaviorism on a
philosophical level and I think it's useful when you pose these questions and
force us to grapple with the nuances of Wittgenstein's ideas precisely because
of the convergence in places with behaviorism. (Gilbert Ryle was much more a
philosophical behaviorist than Wittgenstein though there were, as well, marked
affinities between Ryle's work and Wittgenstein's too.)
Anyway, near as I can tell, no one here is demeaning you personally and while I
have seen a few snipes taken at behaviorism as philosophy, I'm sure it was
nothing personal. I don't know why you feel so aggrieved or think you have to
personalize matters by attacking other interlocutors here.
SWM
--- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Glen Sizemore <gmsizemore2@...> wrote:
>
> Hello again. I am struck by the frequency with which the Big LW uses the term
> "training" when he is trying to explain the behavior of humans (and
> occasionally, non-human animals). Now, I use the term "training" a bunch when
> I am pointing to the causes of behavior, but I am, you know, a behaviorist.
> Indeed, to talk about "training" is, often, to talk about "contengencies of
> reinforcement." And, you know, I'm wonderin'...is it possible that the Big LW
> is using the term in the same way - especially with respect to things like
> "language use" (which would be "verbal behavior" in the language of the
> simpleton, BF Skinner) as Ol' Fred Skinner? I'm just curious - it's not like
> I have an axe to grind or somethin'! But, you know, as I reread the PI, I
> keep comin' across this term, "training." Is it some kind of
> fluke? He couldn't really (unbeknownest to him, of course) be pointing to
> the same thing that the simpleton, idiot, asshole behaviorists are pointing
> to? Could he? That would really make us sick! No?!? But...is there a
> searchable database where one could search for...err..."training," in the Big
> LW's PI that would show, after all, that the writings of the Big LW are NOT
> consistent with the writings of the widely-discounted behaviorist simpleton
> (probably communist-terrorist) assholes? I sure hope so. Otherwise, what is
> to become of the widely accepted distain that some "scholars" have for Ol'
> Fred? I know, I know, my brothers, this nonsense of some deep relation
> between the Big LW and the man with the Big Forehead (aka B.F. Skinner) is
> bull crap - but how are we to show it? Join with me, Oh My Brothers. Join
> with me and point to all the uses that the Big LW makes of "training," and
> show that these usages are only superficially related to, or not at all,
> to those of the widely-discounted, moronic - dare I say asshole -
> behaviorists? I'm counting on you, Obe-Sean Stern-Urner Konobe. And the farce
> be with you!
>
>
>
>
>
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