[Wittrs] How Much of Wittgenstein I is Repudiated by Wittgenstein II?
- From: Sean Wilson <whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
.. I think this is a difficult subject, Stuart. I haven't been following
everything with Cayuse, but one must take great care here. Firstly,
Wittgenstein surely did remove large segments out of his engine wholesale, to
be specifically replaced by a new sort of motor -- but whether the vehicle is
an upgrade or a repudiation is really a matter for the marketing. [Side note:
must be auto simile week].
Let me say this another way. I would be careful relying upon quotes of what
Ludwig said about his work to establish any substantive points. Case in point:
although it is true that he did admit to "grave mistakes" in his earlier work,
it is also true that he regularly had doubts about his later work, and he
admitted that it would be difficult to follow because it had "egg shells" of
the old view sticking to it. I personally do not view Wittgenstein II as a
repudiation of Wittgenstein I. I see it as a substantial upgrade. Sort of like
going from Dos computers to whatever they have now.
Here's what I think should be focused upon. You ask yourself what are the
outcomes (the stakes) of each of Wittgenstein's views? In each system of
thought, what are you allowed to do with language? What can be said and not
said? What must we be silent of? What is nonsense in each system?
When you ask these questions, what you will find is that the new creature
really does a hell of a lot of what the old one did, just with a different way
of doing it. (And, of course, with different winners and losers -- different
stakes). One way of summing this up might say that Wittgenstein I was
concerned with demarking nonsense (and the unspeakable) whereas Wittgenstein II
was concerned with demarking senselessness and confusion. Note the subtle
difference: nonsense versus pointlessness. The former is the result of an
algebra for policing these things -- it comes from a rule -- the other is the
result of showing someone "why bother" on their own terms. Wittgenstein II
doesn't need to invent an algebra to police language or to constitute meaning;
he'll simply allow language and meaning to be whatever they can be in a
person's behavior -- but then he will comment retrospectively upon how
inadequate the offering was (under the laws of the
person's own making).
My point is really very simple. Whether any position, X, is repudiated by
Wittgenstein is a function of how that X fits in the new way of thinking. Some
of the old X's may still fit. And among those that do, some may also have been
required to have shed some of their baggage or their containers, so to
speak. Imagine someone telling you that you had to move to a new house. What a
lovely time it would be to take with you only what you could and leave behind
the stuff not worth moving. And when you are in your new home, do you treat it
as a repudiation or a "moving along." All that has happened is that Ludwig has
moved along.
Regards.
Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.
Assistant Professor
Wright State University
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----- Original Message ----
From: swmaerske <SWMirsky@xxxxxxx>
To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:43:56 PM
Subject: [Wittrs] Re: Young Ludwig by McGuinness
This is especially relevant to my ongoing discussions with Cayuse who seems to
be convinced that the Tractarian Wittgenstein is definitive in understanding
certain of Wittgenstein's ideas even though, in his later work, he explicitly
disavows the earlier thinking as reflecting "grave" mistakes.
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