[wisb] Re: What else sounds like... Menominee Co.
- From: Nancy Richmond <polarpastor@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:03:03 -0500
Thanks for all the replies.
I wrote my initial post for 2 reasons:
1 - to get some input on what I might be confusing with Northern
Waterthrush - what I was overlooking. Always learning.
2 - to get some conversation going about describing the birds we hear.
There have been some great suggestions! It's a lot more difficult than
visual description - and that's far from easy.
I've been trying to write up this bird song as if I were going to submit it
to the Records Committee. I'm not sure there will be enough evidence to
make it worthwhile. It's really challenging! Thinking about it and writing
it down are 2 different things.I can hear the bird in my head, but how to
communicate it on paper in a way that others can understand...
Anyway, it's a great exercise. Stretching me in a new way. Maybe the
challenge of this spring for me is to describe what I hear. It will help me
listen in a different way, I think. To do more than recognize/ID.
Try it. It's not easy even with simple, well known birds. Just try a
Chickadee....
See what I mean?
Happy birding to you all
Nancy Richmond
Polar - Langlade Co.
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Ryan Brady <ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From a Records Committtee and eBird perspective, such heard-only records
> are indeed very difficult to deal with. I don't have much to add to what
> others have said except that you should try to take a recording. Handheld
> recorders are relatively cheap and sometimes effective. If the bird is
> close or loud enough, recording clips with the video function of your
> digital camera or even a cell phone is often possible. A final bit of
> advice would be to make sure you write down all the info on what you heard
> before you listen to any recordings -- it's so easy for everything to blend
> together after you start listening to your favorite birding-by-ear
> resources.
>
> The Records Committee has a number of species requiring review that are
> likely to be "heard-only" and we plan to develop criteria/guidance on
> suitably documenting these species. This discussion has helped inform some
> basics of that process, so thanks.
>
>
> Ryan Brady
> Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:42:30 -0500
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: What else sounds like... Menominee Co.
> > From: calocitta8@xxxxxxxxx
> > CC: Wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Hey all-
> > the best approach here (and in many cases of documentation) is to both
> > describe what you heard, AND describe exactly how you ruled out other
> > species, even if you did so unconsciously. Cover all the bases and
> > overwhelm the records committee. As mentioned, N. Waterthrush is one of
> the
> > warblers with a really big song - it's very loud. It shares this with
> > Louisiana Waterthrush, Ovenbird, Connecticut Warbler, and Kentucky
> Warbler.
> > Carolina Wrens also have very loud songs (though structurally quite
> > different than waterthrush).
> >
> > Other things to describe - the number of parts to the song, and define
> the
> > parts (I tend to think of N Waterthrush having 3 part songs, L.
> Waterthrush
> > 3-4, depending on how you define it). Say whether those parts were
> > generally increasing/decreasing in pitch or staying even. Say something
> > about the notes that make up each part. Mention loudness, harshness,
> nasal
> > quality.
> >
> > The issue is that the committee or ebird reviewer will say to themselves
> > "What other options fit the stated description?" Even if one of those is
> > not necessarily more likely, if it's at all reasonable compared with your
> > potential record, they won't be able to rule it out and will not be able
> to
> > accept the record.
> >
> > I for one would focus on being clear about how you ruled out Louisiana
> > Waterthrush, which can produce song with many of the same characteristics
> > as Northern, and in migration could very easily occur in the same
> habitat.
> > It is also expected to arrive before Northern Waterthrush, and therefore
> > would be a species that reviewers would want to rule out.
> >
> > Jesse Ellis
> > Madison, WI
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Tom Wood <tcwood729@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > I have on occasion heard a Northern Waterthrush and thought Connecticut
> > > Warbler. Both have loud, rather choppy songs and I am not very good at
> > > sound identification, being able to identify probably only a bit better
> > > than
> > > 50% of the birds I hear. Also, when you are hoping for something like a
> > > Connecticut
> > > Warbler, any similar song probably makes the sought after species jump
> into
> > > your head. In your case, Connecticut Warbler would be the least likely
> > > species
> > > you would hear in April or early May since they are late migrants.
> Besides,
> > > you probably know both species well and wouldn't have to think about
> what
> > > you were hearing, anyway.
> > > Some species lend themselves well to song description. Whip-poor-will ,
> > > Chuck-will's-widow, Yellow Rail, The Empidonax flycatcher complex,
> etc. But
> > > how would you document the song of a goldfinch, House Finch, or a
> Winter
> > > Wren? Those would be too complex for me to even attempt.
> > > I guess the best one can do when attempting a description of a song
> would
> > > be
> > > to describe the general nature of the song (trill, phrases, buzzy
> sounds,
> > > whistles, grunts,etc), then describe how many syllables you hear and
> which
> > > syllable has the strongest emphasis, if there is variation. Does the
> song
> > > rise in pitch or fall in pitch? Is it delivered rapidly (Prairie
> Warbler)
> > > or
> > > slowly (like Red-eyed Vireo)? High frequency (Cape May Warbler) or
> lower
> > > (Mourning Warbler).
> > > I use mnemonic devices (Fitz-bew for Willow Flycatcher) to remember
> some
> > > songs and these would probably be helpful to a records committee in
> getting
> > > a feel for what you heard, even though everybody probably uses
> different
> > > ones.
> > > I hope you can come up with something to document your Northern
> Waterthrush
> > > because it would add to the remarkable early occurrence data that has
> > > characterized this spring. I think that in the "previous experience
> with
> > > species..." section you should probably note that the location was a
> known
> > > location for
> > > the species last year.
> > >
> > > Thomas Wood,Menomonee Falls, Waukesha County
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> wisbirdn-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > On Behalf Of Nancy Richmond
> > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38 PM
> > > To: Wisbirdn
> > > Subject: [wisb] What else sounds like... Menominee Co.
> > >
> > > Hi All -
> > > I ran the second replicate of my Red-Shouldered Hawk Survey Route in
> > > Northwestern Menominee County this morning (with Tribal permission). I
> had
> > > more Barred owls calling than on my Owl Survey route and even saw one!
> And
> > > more Yellow Bellied Sapsuckers than most people see in a year (34 in 3
> > > hours) This is great habitat for woodpeckers! I had a couple
> Red-Shoulders
> > > respond verbally, but didn't see any.
> > >
> > > My question is... What else sounds similar to a Northern Waterthrush?
> > > I heard what I am certain is a Northern Waterthrush in appropriate
> habitat.
> > > eBird asked for confirmation. I haven't found a good way to describe
> sound
> > > in type. Imitating a bird song is only slightly better - how limited we
> > > humans are vocally! So I typed the stupid sounding explanation
> (wouldn't
> > > pass muster with the Records Committee).... "it matches the call on
> the CD"
> > > Which it did. Exactly. And even if I hadn't had the Stokes Bird songs
> > > along,
> > > I was certain that's what it was. It's pretty distinctive. Loud,
> ringing.
> > > with that whippy little ending. Singing in a wooded swamp...
> > > (Same swamp had the same call last spring too)
> > >
> > > I didn't have time to find the bird and get visual confirmation - I was
> > > running a survey protocol.
> > >
> > > So eBird asked for confirmation of today's bird and I provided my lame
> > > evidence.
> > >
> > > The big problem is I heard the exact same call in the same spot on my
> first
> > > run of the hawk route, which was April 5. If it is/was a Northern
> > > Waterthrush, it would have been record early for the state. There are
> only
> > > 3 records before April 14 - 2 in Milwaukee county 1 in Door. So here I
> am
> > > better than halfway up the state with a bird that would break the
> record by
> > > 4 days. How likely is that?...hmmm
> > >
> > > So.. what might it be, if it wasn't a Northern Waterthrush? I really am
> > > interested in similar sounding birds that would be less unlikely, even
> > > though I'm about 90 % sure :-)
> > >
> > > And a more general question - Can you document "heard only" birds
> > > adequately? How?
> > >
> > > Nancy Richmond
> > > Polar- Langlade Co.
> > >
> > >
> > > ####################
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jesse Ellis
> > Post-doctoral Researcher
> > Dept. of Zoology
> > University of Wisconsin - Madison
> > Madison, Dane Co, WI
> >
> >
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