[webproducers] OT: H1 visas, immigration, globalization and other fun stuff.
- From: "Mandli, Ritu" <Ritu.Mandli@xxxxxxx>
- To: "'webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:17:51 -0400
I saw this posting, was also disappointed and felt, as Scott did, that it
was inappropriate in keeping with the mission of the WebProducer group,
which wasn't nationality-specific when I last checked.
But I think Morry is right in keeping the list open to all discussions. And
honestly would anyone have objected to it however off-topic, however
political if it was a nice, safe cause we could all agree with. You could
further argue that it's pertinent to our "career-development" if you think
the big, bad immigrant is taking away your job, driving down your wages.
So given that the floor is open, and not many of us have countered Brenda's
argument, here's my humble opinion. We're not all silent supporters:
In an ideal world (as taught in my Economics 101 class) globalization is not
a zero-sum game. But let's face it, there are losers: If your job is lost
because it's cheaper to make steel in Korea. If your company outsources its
transcription services to Bangalore. If the maquilas can assemble the
T-shirt faster than the mills of Worcester. The impact of immigration on the
tech labor market is just another face of the same coin, a much older one in
fact.
There's pain, and I feel it. We're all watching our backs these days even
when employed.
But while corporations might be motivated by greed in finding (sometimes)
cheaper immigrant labor, there are huge benefits to migrant workers. We
could argue endlessly over the benefits to workers in sweatshops in
Thailand, but for the techies (and to the families they support in the home
country), the loosening of the American labor market has been a huge boon.
So even as I fear for my own job, my wages, I don't want the US to block one
of the few benefits of globalization for developing countries. As the NYT
put it recently, "Probably the single most [beneficial] change for the
developing world would be to legalize the export of the one thing they have
in abundance -- people."
It's a complex issue. I've only produced one argument from the countless
many, and haven't even done justice to it at that. But it's hard not to
present the black to the white, even if you believe the truth is somewhere
in the gray.
And, oh, I still believe there are better forums for this discussion than
WebProducers (trying to prevent the ton of "brain drain" and other arguments
headed my way :).
*Most respectfully* yours,
Ritu
PS: If you want to learn more, the ongoing World summit has spurred a lot of
discussions/groups on these issues. Happy learning.
-----Original Message-----
From: m o r r y [mailto:morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 4:22 PM
To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [webproducers] Re: Gov't to make H1-Visa's permanent
Only because I've been asked to moderate am I chiming in on this at this
time.
We have very few written rules for the WP list and I think that's a good
thing. The only mentioned "rule" is listed in the welcome message and it's
only one rule.
Can I get a little backup on this from the one, the only, the amazing, and
the BE-utiful Ms. Aretha Franklin........
"R-E-S-P-E-C-T Sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me."
Ok sorry about that digression. I just can't say that word without invoking
a little soul into the discussion.
The actual welcome message states:
We intend to discuss and share ideas, stories, suggestions, advice, and
resources for career development and improving the practice of web project
management. As the list grows we will undoubtedly begin to add guidelines of
etiquette for this list but in the meantime we only ask that you show
respect.
The WP list is meant to be free and open for discussion and the community
should shape what it is and what is discussed as long as we stick to the
primary topic of all things WP. If you want to mention something off topic
then please put "off topic" in the subject followed by some idea of what the
topic is. Keep in midn that the WP list is global and not everyone our
varying ideas or opinions. This will also help when regional postings are
made as WP is a global group with subscribers/members from Brazil, Canada,
Australia, Portugal, Sweden, UK, Yugoslavia, and USA.
This is a tough time for many of us the economy is down and many are looking
for opportunities out there and are growing tired and weary.
Let's keep WP a safe place where we can all feel comfortable with the give
and take of ideas, suggestions, resources, and all things related to Web
Producing and Web Project Management.
Sometimes we don't know where the boundaries are for others on the list.
Sometimes we might offend, anger, annoy each other without realizing it.
When that happens I think we need to look back to Aretha and try to respect
each other and our varying perspectives and make amends if possible.
And then if that doesn't work well.................
Go Ahead Make My Day!
Peace. Out.
Morry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nemo Nox" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 2:06 PM
Subject: [webproducers] Re: Gov't to make H1-Visa's permanent
>
>
> Brenda Harmon wrote:
> >In effect, giving Visa holders permanent residence,
> >driving down IT wages, and making it more difficult
> >for American citizens to find jobs.
>
> People should be able to live and work
> wherever they want, regardless of where
> they were born. Employers should be able
> to hire people based on their skills and
> not their places of origin. Let the good
> IT professionals come to the USA and help
> the country to do a good job.
>
>
> Nemo Nox
> http://www.nemonox.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
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>
> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation visit
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.
>
> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
__________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation visit
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.
Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
__________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation visit
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.
Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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