HiCearbhall, There has been an update of JAWS9 since last weekend. I don't know if it will help with this problem, but may be worth doing anyway being a JAWS9 user. You can go here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws90fea.asp and look for the part that talks about enhancements in the new version, which is version 9.0.552. The update is itself, of course, downloadable via the JAWS9 Help, Check for Updates... Other things you could try? Delete your Temporary internet Files; and - this shouldn't be necessary, but can produce results - clear your Internet History. .----- Original Message ----- From: "Cearbhall O Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxx> To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Bad news, Tony! I switched off my image settings to see if I could isolate the cause of the breakdown. As a result the problem has returned. I set all the image settings back on again but the problem is persisting. Back to the drawing board, I am afraid! I can get into the core site to log on but once logged on the browser freezes up and I cannot open the desktop or any other applications. I waited a few minutes and then JAWS returned so I tried to close Internet Explorer but it still grabbed JAWS and froze. After another wait of 3 minutes JAWS functionality returned but it was so limited that I had to restart the computer. any ideas? All the best, Cearbhall "Good design enables - Bad design disables" Tel: 01-2864623 Mob: 087 9922227 Em: cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- >From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony.G.Murray@xxxxxx Sent: 31 January 2008 16:16 To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office > I can only assume that the page froze because it could not load the images and image-related items on the page! > Any thoughts on this outcome/ I doubt that was the issue. My browser has all images and image related functionality disabled and I can access the site without any problems. Although installing Java wouldn't have done any harm, I can't imagine how it would've solved your problem given the nature of the application you were trying to access. Anyway, whatever - glad it's ok now. "Cearbhall O Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxx> Sent by: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 31/01/2008 16:03 Please respond to vicsireland To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> cc: Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Dear All, My thanks to all who responded to this query and particularly to Paul Traynor who directed me to download Java from the sun web site when we found that I had no Java installed. This did not immediately stop my system from freezing up even after installing it. I had all the multi-media features turned off and so -as an experiment- I turned on all the image related options and that gave me full access to the Core work page. I can only assume that the page froze because it could not load the images and image-related items on the page! Any thoughts on this outcome/ Again, thanks for everyone's time. All the best, Cearbhall "Good design enables - Bad design disables" Tel: 01-2864623 Mob: 087 9922227 Em: cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- >From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cearbhall O Meadhra Sent: 31 January 2008 14:20 To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Sadly, alt-f4 does nothing in whatever is happening I am afraid! All the best, Cearbhall "Good design enables - Bad design disables" Tel: 01-2864623 Mob: 087 9922227 Em: cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- >From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony.G.Murray@xxxxxx Sent: 31 January 2008 11:20 To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office - Ok, I've just logged in. - I've selected Workspace, and I'm navigating around. No crashes thus far. - This part of the site uses frames, but they are named so no real problem. - In the Main Frame, on entering the Workspace, there are a number of form controls. Now I'm feeling a little dubious. - The form contained in the MainFrame is not accessible, but I've managed to get through it (well the bits I need). - I've now created a new folder. - The creation process involves a JavaScript pop up. This is JavaScript on the client side which I referred to early in my mail below. - A box appears prompting you for a name for the new folder. - If you are not in forms mode, this can potentially cause a problem. - The popup appears, Jaws stops speaking (and this is JavaScript conflicting with Jaws). - When in Forms mode, Jaws handles the popup just fine. - Try hitting alt+F4 next time you log in to the Workspace and the system 'locks up'. This will get rid of the popup if it is the aspect causing your problems. - These JavaScript popups are a constant cause of bother for Jaws users, especially when not in forms mode. In a broader sense, they are an accessibility and a usability issue for many people, for a number of reasons. So, to sum up, I can get in to the workspace with out a problem. When beginning to work with the form in the MainFrame, I can see potential issues... When you get the 'lock up' resort to the old reliable... Alt+F4, and hopefully you'll kill the popup and things will go back to normal. Switch to forms mode, and you'll be able to fill in the required prompts in the JavaScript generated popups. Don't be shy, give it a try! "Cearbhall O Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxx> Sent by: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 31/01/2008 10:53 Please respond to vicsireland To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> cc: Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Dear Tony, Thanks for the comprehensive answer! As you say, I had no trouble with the index page and other links on the cro.ie web site. The trouble arose when I registered with "Core" which is the part of the CRO service which allows you to send files and do other activities related to company law online. This is accessed through a link labelled "Core" on the index page of the cro.ie. The index page of Core is also accessible. I first had to register with Core. This requires a user name and password. The user name is any valid email that the user wishes to put in. The registration process went fine and I was able to operate all the fields. When the user name and password have been successfully entered, the system opens up the user's workspace where one is supposed to be able to submit forms and carry out all company transactions as an alternative to posting them. As soon as the workspace opened up my entire system stopped and I could not operate any other windows nor get any response from JAWS, for example, by moving to the desktop. I opened up Narrator and this showed that I could not move around the windows which had been open. It was clear that the entire system had locked up. The only solution was to restart the computer. With a fresh start I went back to the cro.ie web site, linked to "core" and attempted to gain entry to the "Core" workspace again. The same thing happened as soon as I successfully entered my user name and password. Narrator seemed to indicate that the Core workspace was in Java - not Java script. I would welcome any thoughts people might have. If any brave souls would like to try out the "Core" registration, there is no cost in registering a user name and password. All the best, Cearbhall "Good design enables - Bad design disables" Tel: 01-2864623 Mob: 087 9922227 Em: -----Original Message----- >From: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony.G.Murray@xxxxxx Sent: 31 January 2008 09:44 To: vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Hi, I find the CRO's web site (www.cro.ie) to be imperfect, but certainly not the most inaccessible or unusable site ever. Interestingly, the Plain Text link doesn't work, but the whole ideology behind such a feature is redundant... so why not that actual link? Seriously though, my experiences with it haven't been too bad. It could be that I'm not accessing the same areas as you. > I noticed that the site is using Java for the workspace. What led you to that conclusion? Where's the workspace? > Has anyone any hints on how to use Java with JAWS? Hmm, big question, and here comes a big answer. Some aspects of JavaScript when utilised on the front end of web applications or sites can be inaccessible or unusable, but given the enhancements built in to Jaws in the past number of years, these instances are becoming fewer and fewer. I wonder if it is some sort of front end JavaScript validation functionality that has caused your machine to lock up. I've seen JavaScript being used on the server side of web applications, but it is not as common these days. I am kind of discounting server side JavaScript in your case, as you wouldn't be able to see it working by ploughing through a form (unless the designer had awful error handling abilities), and yeah, like I say because nobody really uses it any more. JavaScript is commonly confused with Java. They are not the same. Different languages altogether. Java Applets, which are essentially Java programs which can run in your browser, are generally a nightmare to work with when using Jaws. Thankfully, Applets are old hat at this stage, and it's been ages since I've seen one. They have been eclipsed (ha ha!) by Flash etc, which is all good news. So let's discount that one too for the moment (come back to me if it is an applet and I'll do some more investigations). You would be amazed at how many times you have 'used' Java with Jaws when accessing the Internet. Java, by it's nature, is mainly a back end technology. In my experience programs utilising Java in the background, in a lot of cases use HTML as their front ends... which is just okie cokie for us Jaws users... provided the HTML complies with all those standards which we're so familiar with. Now just to make it even more confusing, when I talk about Java being used in the background, a lot of the time it is used in the back end of the front end, or as a middle layer between the front end and the real 'back end' like a database or whatever. Anyhoo, you'll be delighted that I'm not here to talk about all these multiple layers!! Some applications, be they Java or otherwise, use pure Java front ends. Now, these can be tricky to use with Jaws. That's when you go down the Access Bridge route, take a chance (a chica chica chance), and hope for the best. They usually don't work, but again, I don't think this is what you're dealing with here. The only one I've seen for a long time is Limewire, that illegal file sharing program. Nothing else springs to mind, except some nasty SAP things. I'm straying way off the point here in my little explanation of Java, JavaScript, and the differences between both. It is part of my process of elimination though, so bear with me. Can you give us an idea of what exactly you were doing on the CRO's site? Maybe then someone can go through the functionality you were accessing to figure out what is going on... That is assuming their own PC doesn't go bye-bye. > Is it a hopeless case? I doubt it. However, as the great Homer Simpson said "Trying is the first step towards failure" and who are we to disagree? Something just struck me, I wonder could you have activated one of those links which opens a PDF in a browser window? I bet the CRO's web site has a few of those. They've caused me problems in the past, but they are not Java related. There is a possible link to the use of JavaScript here (JavaScript is often used to open a new window in a browser which is extremely annoying), I'm warming to this theory! Anyway, if nothing else, at least my mail will have hopefully put out the message... There is a difference between Java and JavaScript. Their only real similarity is in their names. Have fun, Tony "Cearbhall O Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxx> Sent by: vicsireland-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 30/01/2008 20:17 Please respond to vicsireland To: <vicsireland@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> cc: Subject: [vicsireland] Re: [JAVA and the companies registration office Hi, I was trying to use the workspace in the Companies Registration Office web site to work on some online forms today. I was shocked to find that the whole screen went dead and JAWS locked up so completely that I had to restart the computer. I noticed that the site is using Java for the workspace. Has anyone any hints on how to use Java with JAWS? Is it a hopeless case? All the best, Cearbhall "Good design enables - Bad design disables" Tel: 01-2864623 Mob: 087 9922227 Em: cearbhall.omeadhra@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ****************************************************** This document is strictly confidential and is intended for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated. 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