[THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
- From: "Brian Madden" <brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:38:30 -0500
I'm getting ready to do a fairly large scale performance test. I'll
certainly do a few tests with the page file disabled.
However, these tests won't begin until early April, so it'll probably be
about 3 weeks before I find out.
I'll post the results, though.
Brian
Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
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-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Timothy Mangan
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 2:18 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
Well Ron, we await to hear about your results! =20
I guess I'd probably be more comfortable running such a config on a
stable
(more predictable) type of server than TS, but the concept has some
merit.=20
I think that the best performance gain would not come from CPU
reduction,
but from disk I/O reduction. Page trimming (flushing infrequently used
out
pages to disk to keep free memory available) uses only a few CPU cycles
once
a second. So any testing should probably focus on a scenario that is
file
I/O bound. =20
The relationship between page trimming and other file I/O priority would
be
interesting to understand better. Certainly, in the scenario you
describe
(where paging is not needed) one would like to see other file I/O
prioritized, however I don't believe that is the case. Thus you are
likely
to see performance enhancement because other file I/O operations are
sped
up.
tim
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:44 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
All true 9again this is just an exercise in "is it possible? And if so
beneficial?"
I mean if a server has a severe memory leak ot process that is eating
memory
then eventually (4 Gb or 12) you will run out of working set/memory
anyway.
So if you have a stable system and this an exception (an odd occurrence
or
as Tim says something going wacky)and normally run WELL below your
amount of
physical RAM it would be possible to run without a page file and see
some
type of performance benefit. (again another "tweak")
I mean many of us have spent HOURS if not days trying small little
tweaks to
get a tiny bit more performance, Since all of this little tweaks are
cumulative. What if something like this could give you a 1-2% boost
with
very little risk.
I understand what Tim says (how it doesn't feel right) since Windows has
always relied heavily on the pagefile even when not needing it. But we
are
working in a brave world here and I think I just might have to pilot
this
change to see what's what. =20
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
=20
RapidApp, Chicago
Mobile 815 325-7618
Office 312 372-7188
e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Bernd Harzog
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 7:34 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
I have to agree with Tim. There are basically two reasons that the page
=3D
file gets used heavily in TS environments. One is that applications =3D
components get swapped to it (this is the problem that one of the =3D
optimizations in TScale addresses), and the second is that the OS makes
=3D
sure that there is always enough working set available by "trimming" =3D
pages in memory that have not been used recently.
If you run without a page file, you will still benefit from TScale =3D
because you will have cut your total VM available from lets say 12 GB (4
=3D
GB RAM + 8 GB page file), to just 4 GB, and the memory savings delivered
=3D
by TScale will be all the more valuable to you. But, IF something =3D
happens that causes the need for memory to exceed your 4GB you will run
=3D
out of working set. If you run out of working set, the OS blue screens.
=3D
Which leads us back to the reason why it is good to have a large page =
=3D
file - it ensures that the OS has lots of places to put things so that =
=3D
he does not run out of working set.
Cheers,
Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc.
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Mangan [mailto:tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:19 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: No Pagefile for TS?
Well you would save a little bit on all that page trimming activity. It
just doesn't "feel right" though. You would have no protection should
something go wacky. OK - maybe two things would have to go wacky - but
still...
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On =
=3D
Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:49 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] No Pagefile for TS?
Anyone ever thought of this. Lets assume you have 4Gb of memory on a =3D
bunch
of Dual Proc boxes. You average about 1-1.5 TOTAL memory in use (page =
=3D
file
and physical)=3D20
=3D20
With 2003 you can disable the pagefile and run from Physical memory =3D
only.
Anyone ever try this or thought about it? I could see a benefit if you =
=3D
have
plenty of physical memory saving the processor and disk cycles used in
paging (even though it is small).
=3D20
Ron
=3D20
=3D20
Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
=3D20
RapidApp, Chicago
Mobile 815 325-7618
Office 312 372-7188
e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D20
=3D20
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