[sparkscoffee] Re: A clear case where socilisim is better then captalism

  • From: R George <xgeorge@xxxxxxx>
  • To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 14:58:37 -0700

*Huge protests in Hong Kong on Tiananmen anniversary*

More than 100,000 protesters have flocked to Hong Kong's Victoria Park to mark the 24th anniversary of China's deadly Tiananmen Square crackdown.

On June 4, 1989 automatic gunfire and panic took hold of the iconic Beijing plaza as thousands of PLA troops moved in to evict student demonstrators.

But over two decades later there has still been no official apology or even recognition of what happened. No exact death toll has been released with estimates ranging from 200 to several thousand.

Mo Zhixu, a Beijing-based dissident, told The Daily Telegraph that Communist Party leaders would not succeed in airbrushing June 4 from Chinese history.

"I don't think this [part of] history will be forgotten as time goes by. It represents the people's rebellion against dictatorship," he said.

On the eve of Tuesday's annual vigil in Hong Kong, the US State Department called on the Beijing to "end harassment of those who participated in the protests and fully account for those killed, detained, or missing." Human Rights Watch urged China's new leadership to allow public commemorations of the June 4 killings and to acknowledge "the government's responsibility for the massacre of unarmed civilians."

*But there was no sign of that happening on Tuesday as censors set about scrubbing all reference of Tiananmen Square from the internet.*

*Search terms including "today", "tomorrow", "massacre" and "square" were blocked and messages alluding to June 4 vanished -- sometimes within seconds of being posted. Among the images that censors wiped was a photograph of China's first lady, Peng Liyuan, singing to PLA troops in the aftermath of the tragedy.*

Lee Cheuk-yan, one of the organisers of the annual Hong Kong vigil, said there was no indication China's new president, Xi Jinping would reassess the Party line on the 1989 crackdown.

"We've only seen tightening instead of relaxation since Xi Jinping came on stage," he told Bloomberg.

In the lead up to this year's anniversary Chinese activists waged a two-month online campaign calling on citizens to take to the streets of mainland cities wearing black clothes as a silent memorial to those who were killed.

Hu Jia, a well-known Beijing activist, said wearing black and talking part in a "citizens walk" would allow people to express their sorrow without facing the potentially serious consequences of protesting.

But there were no reports of major protests in the capital or elsewhere on the mainland.

"Beijing is heavily guarded today," Mr Hu said. "More than three people wearing black shirts together will be blocked and suppressed."

On Tuesday morning, Tiananmen Square itself was open, albeit swarming with undercover agents and security forces.

A group of journalists from Hong Kong were reportedly detained for around one hour and told to delete their footage.

Unusually, the mausoleum that houses Chairman Mao's embalmed body was closed -- the result of "road construction" one worker claimed.

Recent weeks have seen a concerted nationwide push to rein in any potential troublemakers. A number of petitioners and dissidents said they had been placed under house arrest or come under tightened surveillance while the mobile phones of several activists appeared to have been disconnected.

Officials at Shenzhen University, located not far from the border with Hong Kong, were reportedly instructed to carry out "stability maintenance work" aimed at stifling protest.

"In the event that a problem arises, those responsible must at the first moment arrive at the scene and handle the situation," read a translation of the directive by the University of California-run website China Digital Times.

"There must be absolutely no reactionary speech, [online] forum discussions, or demonstrations."

Mainland media avoided the subject entirely but newspapers in Hong Kong, which is under Beijing's control but enjoys a degree of political autonomy, interviewed some of those who had suffered for speaking out about the 1989 crackdown.

Bao Tong, a senior Communist Party official who was jailed for questioning the government's actions, told the South China Morning Post: "June 4 must be completely repudiated."

Hu Jia, the activist, criticised president Xi Jinping, who is this week touring Latin America, the Caribbean and the United States, for spending his first June 4 anniversary as president out of the country.

 "This is his best way to avoid sensitive problems," said Mr Hu.

telegraph.co.uk
On 6/5/2013 2:40 PM, sblumen123@xxxxxxx wrote:
R George
Did you read your wordy link? I skimmed thru it and consider it
intelectual gobledy gook. China admits and even publicies its
poluted air due to rapid industrilization which should have stayed
in our originated countries. China is also a populer tourist destination
and not ashamed of it's exploited workers who have switched from
bycycles to cars, bullet trains, museums, theatres, modern hospitals,
circuses,olympics, flowery gardens and whatever makes a pleasant
society. You, RR, JS and DR make me think of people with giant
magnifying glasses looking for dirt to justfy your wrong thinking. Also
China does not have the overpowering National Debit we have, instead
a good portion is owned to them plus they are looking to invest state
owned surpluses for profit and future manufacturing. Also they don't go
to war over WMD like Iraq instead they make long term deals for the stuff.
Comrade B forever


-----Original Message-----
From: R George <xgeorge@xxxxxxx>
To: sparkscoffee <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 12:49 pm
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: A clear case where socilisim is better then captalism

Comrade B,

I was thinking about your comments on China and wondered what the genuine Socialist had to say and found this in the International Journal of Socialist Renewal. http://links.org.au/node/1355

---------------------
*In my view China today can be described as a bourgeois nationalist regime. Its economy is capitalist, *
but the government is relatively independent of the imperialist powers.

It should be noted however that China still has close economic links with imperialism. China keeps
its foreign exchange reserves in US dollars, propping up the US currency.

The need for socialism

Despite the partial reversal of some neoliberal policies, *China remains a highly unequal society, ** **where workers are ruthlessly exploited and lack job security. The air and water are extremely polluted. *

Despite significant investment in renewable energy, the use of fossil fuels continues to expand, and China is now the world's biggest producer of greenhouse gases. Minorities such as the Tibetans and Uighurs continue to be oppressed. Freedom of speech continues to be restricted.

*A struggle for genuine socialism remains necessary.*

[Chris Slee is a member of the Democratic Socialist Perspective, a Marxist organisation affiliated to the Socialist Alliance of Australia.]


On 6/5/2013 12:31 PM, sblumen123@xxxxxxx wrote:
A socialist economy does not
declare bankruptcy to avoid paying contract benafits even if the
bankruptcy is real.. I rest my case.
Comrade B


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