[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: showgsd-l Digest V1 #163 Christine's post
- From: "Barbara Lee WILLIAMS" <santanagsd1954@xxxxxxx>
- To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:16:12 -0800
Just a thought... In my personal opinion, I believe Christine's post was 'Right
On!'... The AKC is all Powerful and " The AKC Can Give and the AKC Can Take
Away."
.Something we must all keep in mind...
Just like they did many years ago when the GSDCA of Los Angeles , California
was the Host Club for the GSDCA National Specialty... But Because of internal
conflict within that Hosting Club the AKC CANCELED our National Specialty Show
that year.. .. Many of us on the West Coast, some who were not able to travel
out of State to attend other Nationals, and who had dogs ready to compete for
the Top Awards were left high and dry... as was the rest of the USA... It was
devastating and we all learned a HARD LESSON!!
Actually, we all know that Double-Handling is CONTROVERSIAL....It can mask a
shy dog with a Savvy Handler and Owner Working as a Team...Just for starters...
I had one experience with an AKC Rep when Judging Shepherds at an All-Breed
Show( Del Valle All-Breed Show..in California )
...Although we were outside in a large grass ring , so were some of the other
Breeds... It is a real AKC "No No," for any person handling a dog inside the
ring , or anyone outside the ring, to call the dog being judged in the ring,
by NAME! Soon the AKC Rep came into my ring, but stood politely under the
tent by the Judges table and motioned me over to her.. She said, " There are
people out there calling that dog by name', you must stop all this
Double-Handling and violation of the AKC rules immediately.".
(I had an entry of 86 and the timing of the Groups , to also consider.).
I answered her ,' I have all I can handle judging these dogs, and I am
controlling what is going on INSIDE my ring.. Therefor , with all due
respect, I suggest that you do your Job and control what is going on OUTSIDE my
ring''..
She gave me a look , thought about it a moment and then went out of the ring
and began confronting the people who were causing the problems..
Personally, I think they ask too much for Judges to control events outside
of their Rings..
I have posted that opinion and this experience, before, and that opinion
hasn't changed ...
But Christine really put it all into perspective when she posted about the
double-handling antics and total ignorance and some lack of concern about the
AKC rules..( by some.)..and the POSSIBLE REPERCUSSIONS!! She is absolutely
right!!!
It is Something to Seriously Think About, "The Power of the AKC"... JMO barb
williams
----- Original Message -----
From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: showgsd-l digest users<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: showgsd-l Digest V1 #163
showgsd-l Digest Wed, 12 Dec 2007 Volume: 01 Issue: 163
In This Issue:
#1: From: <ricknaudra@xxxxxxx<mailto:ricknaudra@xxxxxxx>>
Subject: Mr. Gaeta
#2: From: <ricknaudra@xxxxxxx<mailto:ricknaudra@xxxxxxx>>
Subject: Mr. Gaeta
#3: From: ALL4MORIAH@xxxxxxx<mailto:ALL4MORIAH@xxxxxxx>
Subject: New akc rule
#4: From: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: Christine's post............my comments
#5: From: Denise Williams <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: reminder, 2008 dog licenses
#6: From: "Penny & Bill" <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: AKC
#7: From: "Ginger Cleary"
<cleary1414@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cleary1414@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: doubling,etc
#8: From: DPiagentin@xxxxxxx<mailto:DPiagentin@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Christine's post............my comments
#9: From: Edwin Hill <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: sex in the bleachers???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg: #1 in digest
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:51:19 -0800
From: <ricknaudra@xxxxxxx<mailto:ricknaudra@xxxxxxx>>
Subject: Mr. Gaeta
I wrote Mr. Gaeta.=20
At one point I said that they should have called the cops at the time of th=
e altercation and he replied with...You are absolutely correct, the police =
should be called in any case where there are =E2=80=9Chands on.=E2=80=9D T=
hat is the quick and sure way to address such issues.=20
=20
Rick Haase
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the World will know pe=
ace" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------
Msg: #2 in digest
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:54:05 -0500
From: <ricknaudra@xxxxxxx<mailto:ricknaudra@xxxxxxx>>
Subject: Mr. Gaeta
I wrote Mr. Gaeta.=20
At one point I said that they should have called the cops at the time of th=
e altercation and he replied with...You are absolutely correct, the police =
should be called in any case where there are =E2=80=9Chands on.=E2=80=9D T=
hat is the quick and sure way to address such issues.=20
=20
Rick Haase
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the World will know pe=
ace" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------
Msg: #3 in digest
From: ALL4MORIAH@xxxxxxx<mailto:ALL4MORIAH@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:54:43 EST
Subject: New akc rule
Well I guess it is plain to see what will be coming up on future akc board
meetings.
Peter will make a motion to make Double Handling of Any kind against AKC
RULES.I will bet it will have a second and motion passed. Then they will
come
to all Specialties and we will lose the sport as we know it. Suspensions
will
be dealt out left and right.
Judi
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Msg: #4 in digest
From: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: Christine's post............my comments
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:00:33 -0500
Christine - believe me, if I felt violated, I would have the law there
before the violator could blink twice.
If you read my post, you would see that I am very much aware that the rest
of the dog fancy looks down
on the GSD fancy...I said so. This is NOT new. As I also said, a great
number of those people also
believe all German Shepherds are crippled. This includes judges. This is
not something that has just
happened recently, or within the past 20 years...the anti-GSD feeling has
been around at least since
the late 60s.
I don't consider any part of doubling to be a grey area. Unfortunately, it
is only the GSD fancy
that has turned it into a freak show, and this is why it is ignored
completely in other breeds, and
perceived, even when it doesn't go on at all, as a mortal sin around the
Shepherd ring. Many
years ago there was a GSD in the group at Westminster, and the entire
country was buzzing
about the handler's sister doubling from the first tier of seats...it was on
television and anyone
who wasn't blind saw it. It did NOT interfere with anyone, dog or human,
but it was talked
about for years. That handler, his sister and her husband, are still
involved in the breed today..
and each of them is 2nd generation. So the disdain with which the rest of
the fancy looks upon
German Shepherds and Shepherd exhibitors is nothing new...I know it very,
very well.
If Laura is correct and Peter Gaeta told her there had been no reports of
the rep "laying hands"
on anyone, then he lied...also no surprise to any of us who have had to deal
with him.
Yes, the Shepherd world is different from the all breed world...and it has
been left that way
by the AKC for years. No matter what...there is no excuse for the field
rep's behaviour. None.
Even the club delegate did not know the correct way to handle a bench show
hearing, as
evidenced in Daytona in 2003...that is how out of touch this fancy is with
the rest of the dog
world. Still -- there is no excuse for lying, or for that rep's behaviour.
The shenanigans that have gone on in the club can give the AKC reason to
watch how business is
conducted, and if the powers that be have finally decided to make Shepherd
exhibitors behave
better, that's all well and good...but grabbing people, poking, pushing,
shoving them, all unacceptable.
Yelling redfaced into their faces is also unacceptable.
I avoid the New England all breed shows for many reasons, not the least of
which is the blatant
pimping of certain dogs handled by a relative of another field rep ... now
there is more reason to
stay away, because I will tell you this...if that rep is at any show I do
and she touches me, there
will be no complaint from me to the AKC. I know where to call...and it
isn't New York or
Raleigh.
Peggy
----- Original Message -----
From: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>>;
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
<gretchanya@xxxxxxx<mailto:gretchanya@xxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Christine's post............my comments
> Peggy, you present a good argument, but here is simple solution:.if you
> feel you have been violated, call the law.then the situation will be
> arbitrated by an impartial person and documentation exists. You are right
> about the doubling etc, there is no rule..another gray area so to speak
> and
> you are correct..we have doubled for years..without issue difference now
> is
> we are not well liked by many of the exhibitors in other breeds and we
> have
> now fallen under scrutiny of AKC.
------------------------------
Msg: #5 in digest
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:05:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Denise Williams <denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:denwil2007@xxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: reminder, 2008 dog licenses
Cuyahoga country requires all dogs to be registered according to age and sex
each year. The fee is $16 per dog. They don't ask about rabies shots, but it's
required under the Ohi revised code. I haven't renewed yet, because I want to
send it in for my new guy on the same form. Thanks for the reminder.
Denise W.
ANN SCHULTZ <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I buy a kennel license after I am inspected. I have to show proof of rabies
for every dog and pay a flat fee of $60. They comes between April and June
unnannounced. Each county in Michigan has different rules, but all have to be
double fenced. Ann Doris E wrote: *Here in Douglas County, Nevada, we need to
have a Rabies Tag, and
cannot get it until proof of rabies shots is given. This is handled by
the local Animal Control, has a serial number and is a pretty good I.D.
if the dog is lost. Doris E
*
>
>In a message dated 12/12/2007 11:16:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>gsdramey@xxxxxxx writes:
>Hi, I have owned dogs and lived in three different states and even more
>towns/cities etc. for longer than I wish to admit - BUT - what is a
>"dog license"? I've never had one, unless you're talking about the
>little certifacate paper the Vet gives you when your dog gets a rabies shot.
>
>
>
>No, dog licenses are different. Some locations require them; little tag
>etc., and if a dog goes missing and is picked up, they can be identified by
the
># on the tag. Mine don't wear the tag, because they don't usually wear
>collars, but I'm required to have them licenses none the less. (We also have
>fishing licenses, hunting licenses...)
>
>Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
>Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
>
>visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds<http://www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds>
>
>
>
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Msg: #6 in digest
From: "Penny & Bill" <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: AKC
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:07:24 -0500
In saying this please do not think I agree with that Rep but we are playing
in AKC game and have to play by their rules or they will throw us out of the
game, no night time specialties.
JMO
Lee Brown
**********************
I agree, Lee. Also i have heard that the Fitchburg rep is the relative
(daughter maybe) of a beloved all breed handler. Translation: The rep walks
on water and can do no wrong.
Penny
------------------------------
Msg: #7 in digest
From: "Ginger Cleary" <cleary1414@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cleary1414@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: doubling,etc
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:07:02 -0500
So, I have a question.... rhetorical I guess, LOL
For all those that blame the GSDCA and GSD owners for the reps bad behavior
and feel we should become 'invisible'... so, we won't see any of you
doubling in the future.. right?
Ginger Cleary,Rome, GA ww.rihadin.com
<http://www.rihadin.com<http://www.rihadin.com/>>
The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human
hands, will ever be liable to abuse. - James Madison
Member GSDCA
Member Sawnee Mtn Kennel Club
GA Director Responsible Dog Owners of the Eastern States.
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------------------------------
Msg: #8 in digest
From: DPiagentin@xxxxxxx<mailto:DPiagentin@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:15:32 EST
Subject: Re: Christine's post............my comments
Dear Peggy,
thanks for putting this rep episode in perspective you have said it all and
in a very nice way, what we are all excited about in the putting of hands on
us as exhibitors and you are right that is the point.
No One has the right to put their hands on you, the scenerio at a dog show
is that we are all intent on showing our dog, making sure he is posed
properly, waiting to see what our handler needs from us, so when a rep comes
up to us
and gives us a shove,or grabs us, we are not thinking straight, usually we
apologize, what this has brought to our attention is "hey wait a minute,
there
are no rules against doubling handling, and you have no right to touch me",
at that point we can call the chairman of the show and bring together a
bench
show committee, and the report is made right there and then, if it is not
settled then the police are called. What this incident has done for us as
exhibitors is now we know our rights, we have been given power.
One more thought "doubling is part of our breed," and the AKC needs to go to
Germany and see the Sieger show.
Diane P
Peggy's response"
Very well written...BUT ---and that's a big but.
Yes, for years the rest of the dog fancy has complained about the excessive
(and for the most part, stupid) doubling...the cowbells,
the running like lunatics around the ring, knocking people over and all
that..and you will never convince me that all of a sudden the
AKC has decided to do something about it. I've been to too many dog shows
for too many years to believe that. Of course, those
same people lwho scream about our doubling also think all our dogs are
crippled...do you believe that, too?
As far as the CLUB being scrutinized because of things that happened during
the past year, yes indeed, I think the AKC may
be paying a lot more attention to what we do as a club. That has not one
thing to do with how exhibitors behave at shows...
and even if it did, there is NOTHING that would allow a field rep to commit
assault and battery on exhibitors.
Perhaps many GSD exhibitors who are not exposed to too many all breed shows,
or who haven't much experience dealing
with field reps, particularly with Peter Gaeta, really don't understand the
situation here.
Let me point out...there is no rule against double handling. The entire
responsibility for controlling that rests with the judge...
nowhere is it written that it can't be done. Therefore, if the rep chooses
to spend his or her time stopping it, that is a matter
of choice. But that's all it is. There ARE rules against dying, colouring
noses, etc., and the reps, including this one, ignore
that those rules are broken at EVERY dog show. No rep bothers trying to
enforce that, and that IS a rule.
The rep's duties are to help...help the club if there's a problem, help
judges if they need it, and answer questions about AKC policies
and procedures. NOT to interfere with judges, which includes going into the
ring while judging is going on. NOT to spend a day
or a weekend harrassing exhibitors for perceived misbehaviours.
I have no doubt that some people doubled and made noise or did other things
that may have been disruptive. .Susie W admitted that
there was noise at the Friday morning specialty. May I point out also that
the real harrassment began later in the day? NOT on
Friday morning?
Finally, it does not matter whether there was double handling, shouting,
rule-breaking, or sex in the bleachers...there is absolutely
NO EXCUSE AT ALL for an AKC Executive Field Rep to lay hands on anyone.
THAT is the problem as I see it, NOT whether
anyone misbehaved, or whether the AKC is watching us more than another breed
club. Why on earth would anyone think such
behaviour by a field rep should be condoned? Do you think it
didn't happen? Are you saying these people dreamed it? Or do you think
it is OK for a field rep (or anyone else) to grab, poke, push, shove, or in
any way make physical contact with an exhibitor?
Peggy
----- Original Message -----
From: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> Becky and all .Don't be foolish,.doesn't take a rocket scientist to see
> that AKC is fed up with the antics of the gsd fancy and the GSDCA. We are
> in fact children that behave badly and that rep I would wager had been
> given the heads up about many of our antics. Since 2004, there have been
> countless incidents of improprieties including and not limited to,physical
> and verbal altercations, the botching of elections, the inability to
> police
> ourselves at futurities and other AKC events, the complete disregard of
> AKC
> rules, lawsuits, not being able to follow club by-laws and P&P within our
> own organization
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------------------------------
Msg: #9 in digest
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:15:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Edwin Hill <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: sex in the bleachers???
Bet that show will draw a major!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...lol....FB
------------------------------
End of showgsd-l Digest V1 #163
*******************************
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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
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- » [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: showgsd-l Digest V1 #163 Christine's post
