But using your logic, a wolf pack should be just as happy meeting their nutritional needs by grazing in the fields as they do from eating the stomach contents of a herbivore. Problem is, a wolf can't digest grass because it is not a omnivore. I'm not arguing that wolves need more than protein in their diet (Canivores thrive on protein but it is not their only nutritional need) however they get what they need by eating the entire kill (stomach, organs, hooves, hide) not from munching on tree bark or sampling local plant life. I know that this argument about dogs NOT being canivores has been floating around for years, and I know it's just a belief not a scientific fact. I have nothing against nutritionists, but I think I'll stick to the biologists on this one. Cindy grnram415@xxxxxxx wrote: Cindy, Do you know what an omnivore is? Vegetarians are freaks. I am basing my info on the dietary needs of animals. A true carnivore needs only meat to survive. And omnivore requires vegetation as well as meat for a balanced diet. An herbivore requires only grasses and grains to survive. A vegetarian is a freak of nature and is not a natural order. Wolves are NOT true carnivores. They eat the stomach contents first for the grasses and then the meat. Where do I get this? Well, I have been involved in animal nutrition for about 10 years. I have attended seminars and even pre-vet nutritional classes that have confirmed these findings. I work with raw feeding vets as well as holistic vets. They feel the same as I, that the diet must be balanced based on the species of the animal. If you wish to disagree, so be it. If you want your dogs to be total carnivores, that is your choice. I am just throwing out MY ideas for people to consider, based on my education on the subject. Laura Thomas -----Original Message----- From: cinosamgsd@xxxxxxxxx To: grnram415@xxxxxxx; ssthunderpony@xxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: rawfeeding ..... Carnivore feed suppliers list .AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage a { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: none; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover { color: #2864B4; text-decoration: underline; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink, .AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } body { background-color: white; font-family: "Verdana"; font-size: 10pt; border: 0px; } .AOLWebSuiteCompose p { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } img.managedImg { width: 0px; height: 0px; } img.placeholder { width: 275px; height: 206px; background: #F4F4F4 center center no-repeat; border: 1px solid #DADAD6 !important; } What are you basing your info on? Vegetarians like to say dogs are omnivores, which is why they feed their dogs only vegetarian based dogs foods, but since a dog is a direct descendant of a wolf and wolves are indeed carnivores not sure how that is possible. Bears are omnivores because they are just as happy eating berries as eating meat and if you've ever baited a bear you know that it is not meat but sweets that they are attracted to. Dogs can eat fuits and vegetables, but they thrive on meat/fat (protein) and you will never have to protect your garden from a bunch of meandering wolves. Carnivores- Carnivores are animals belonging to the Order Carnivora. The Order Carnivora contains 7 families and about 250 species. This group of animals includes dogs and their relatives, bears, racoons, mustelids, civits, hyenas, aardwolf, and cats. Cindy cinosamgsd.com grnram415@xxxxxxx wrote: Ok, that just hit on my pet peeve. Dogs are NOT CARNIVORES!!!!!!!!!! They are omnivores, just like humans. There are very few true carnivores in the animal world. These include cats, mink, hyenas and a few weird rodent things we don't have in North America. As Paul stated, in the wild, a dog/wolf, whatever, will go for the gut of an animal first. This is for the grasses the herbivore has ingested. Then they will go for the meaty parts and small bones. This is why we add veggies and fruits to the animals diet. To make it balanced. A meat diet alone for a dog is not a balanced diet, therefore, they are not carnivores. Feeding raw is no different that feeding your family a balanced meal. JMHO Laura Thomas -----Original Message----- From: ssthunderpony@xxxxxxxxx To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 9:26 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: rawfeeding ..... Carnivore feed suppliers list http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/ Carnivore feed suppliers provides a list of what they have to offer people who feed their carnivores a natural raw diet. Pet owners list their needs. This is a fully moderated list. This is not a list designed to discuss raw diets. For more generalised information about the raw diet, please go to the general raw feeding email list. Disclaimer: All messages posted to this list are solely the responsibility of the individuals who post them. This list does not provide warranty of any kind on products offered by suppliers. http://imagegermanshepherds.com/index.asp http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/?yguid=140553699 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ClassicalHomeopathyPets/ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines/ --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com --------------------------------- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================