[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: questions on codes
- From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
- To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:01:27 EDT
Well, we fixed the law suit concerns w/ the disclaimer right <VBG>?
The review committee would be easier than you think. Honestly I do
something similar 2x a week. How many cases do you think you'd have a
quarter...2??? maybe 3???? And remember, most of the "complaints" aren't'
going to
have anything to do w/ the price of tea in China anyway an wouldn't be
covered by the breeders' code.
Now, not receiving a contract, papers, health issues (heart murmur???) that
show up at initial vet visit within so many hours...etc...that's a
different story.
And I think the 1st or 2nd time action was taken would do a whole lot to
snap things in line.
I'm not willing to just throw my hands up in the air, saying "there are
some bad apples" so the heck w/ even trying.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds
In a message dated 5/16/2009 3:41:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
EH?? Not me...........don't call me to be on that 'Review
Committee'.......
Not real fond of Conference calls and I sure don't want to wear a badge
and be on that Posse. <G>
Carolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
----- Original Message -----
From: _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx) To:
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 4:05 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ]was ADVERTISING PC WEBSITE,
questions on codes
Carolyn, excellent post. To answer your question:
"I know we need something......but I have no answers in a law suit
world......to those that do .......lets hear it."
Actually I think it's an EASY fix. Right above where a person signs,
there needs to be a paragraph that
says that in the case of disputes a review committee will have the final
say and that <by signing below>
the member agrees to abide by the review committee's decision and in all
cases indemnify the
committee members and the PC and hold them harmless.
We have enough attorneys around that can get the verbiage right <G>.
And as far as "or cannot be enforced when someone abuses it......."
That's easy too IMO. You set up a review committee, the person filing
the complaints puts their
grievance in writing, a copy is sent to the party involved and they have
30 days to respond.
The committee is provided copies of any and all documents and meets
telephonically once a quarter.
Both parties are notified in writing of the decision (say within 10 days)
following the review. In cases
where it is deemed necessary that some action/sanction needs to be taken,
there needs to be a deadline
for the action and after that, whatever penalty is imposed...happens
(i.e. no longer a signer in good standing).
It's not on Jamie's plate to review/police anything unless she receives a
complaint.
I also want to point out (and I do something very similar on conference
calls every Tuesday & Thursday)
that only complaints that have something to do w/ the actual code
(breeders, or proposed code of ethics)
should/would be considered by committee. "My dog has a questionable
temperament",
"ears didn't come up", "isn't a super star", "developed a health issue
later on" would be heard, but IMO
would all receive a similar form letter that their grievance isn't one
that is covered by the BC or newly
proposed general code of ethics.
In fact, in the real world, contracts have limitations and a review
committee cannot enforce a guarantee
where none existed.
BTW, re the rest of the questions below, there's nothing in the current
code that says anything about early
spay/neuter and in fact you can breed a bitch as often as you like. Over
three times in a row needs to be vet
recommended, quoting "never permitting them to produce three consecutive
litters unless breeding
consecutive litters is recommended by a veterinarian."
Many other clubs have worked this out. I know Jamie worked hard on
proposed changes and I certainly
hope we can get it all worked out too.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds_
(http://www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds)
In a message dated 5/15/2009 2:49:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
Jamie worked very hard on the Breeders Code.......and she was
disappointed
and discouraged
when no action was taken.........we all were...... but there is always
questions to consider and no
one has the answers.
The problem is that it is pointless to have one that no one will sign
.......or cannot be enforced when
someone abuses it.......or have some sign it but not abide by it just so
they can advertise or become
a member of a Club for appearance of respectability.
The Board, or the Club, or the Chair policing it is the problem. Just
think about it.......how can we?
I believe some of the ideas suggested a huge puppy mill could sign.....
and still function as a huge
puppy mill. It does not change the quality or health of the pets or
show dogs placed nor the huge
volume of dogs kept, nor the quality of the Breeder / seller nor their
honesty and love and care of
the dogs if you really look at it. It is a piece of paper.......only
as
good as the Breeders word and
integrity.
SO........you have all your pet puppies spayed and neutered within a
certain age, ( I personally do not
want our pet buyers to spay or neuter early .....) and you only breed
your bitch every 3rd season, and
buyers have a puppy examined by a Vet within 72 hrs.... but your sales
contract could be useless when
a real problem arises for the buyer or the pup anyway......or the breeder
may be one who does not care
or co-operate after that time frame. (..what happens a week or months
later if the puppy has problems )
Already many are already going to another source besides OFA,
etc......AND.... you could still breed a
bitch in hideous health or quality or temperament as long as there were 2
seasons in between?
And who decides what is a "quality" breeding is .....or is a genetic
issue to disqualify any dog as a quality
animal for breeding....or keeps tabs on how often a bitch is bred.....or
decides if the dog has had enough
socialization and exposure as compared to sitting in a kennel too much.
The Board? Jamie?
My point is......If it is not enforceable.... how can it be used just to
advertise. There are other forms of
advertisement that do not require it anyway......and again.....how do we
as a Board police it if we do
pass it? Reasonable Suggestions appreciated......?
Bottom line.........it will not make a good honest concerned caring
Breeder better.....and not signing will
not make them not. It just puts a lot of responsiblity on those of us
who would have to enforce it.
As one person suggested.......I like the idea of a Code of Ethics before
someone joins the Club to begin with.
I know we need something......but I have no answers in a law suit
world......to those that do .......lets hear it.
Carolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
From: Sally Hayden To: _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx
(mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx) ; _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:06 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: was ADVERTISING PC WEBSITE, question,
Breeder's
Code
What bothers me about this discussion is that we have been thru this
multiple times. Jamie wanted to
tighten up the loop wholes and put some strength in it and at the time it
kept getting rejected. As I
remember Jamie worked very hard on this for a long time and took a lot of
suggestions from the
membership only to have it rejected by the board.
So unless the board is willing to back a change it is going no where
Sally
_www.embroiderybysally.org_ (http://www.embroiderybysally.org/)
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POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
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the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at _admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
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