I saw this come up in the other discussion going on.. We are talking about the structural issues that make a good dog... To me, work ethic can make or break a dog. A dog with "heart" (as they refer to it in Thoroughbreds) can make up for a lot in structure. I have seen and finished a few dogs that although not structurally very good, because they have so much attitude and "give" make up for it that way. And an example "Sid the Sr. Dal", probably one of the prettiest dals in the stack, beautiful shoulders, forechest, posternum, etc..... When he moved, he tended to move like Scooby Doo (picture this).... I could sell the stack, but the seller for him was attitude.. He could sell himself to ANYONE.... We finished him with a 5 point major, specialed him a dozen times, put him in the Top 20 and then neutered him all in the same year :-) I also had Sid's brother, Dobie the Slug... Structurally sound and very pretty... Took forever to finish him because he had NO attitude... JMHO... And for those who asked, I will dig out photos of the dog who's shoulders and shoulder layback did change over time... He was also a different style of dog than what we had dealt with... Jess Mac Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com) & The Shepherd Girls _________________________________________________________________ i?m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================