In a message dated 12/17/2005 12:01:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, Stormy435@xxxxxxx writes: Admittedly I haven't been around dogs as long as y'all, but In the 12 years that I've been in the breed, and 4 litters, no hip problems, no elbow problems, no bad hearts, for sure no conception problems, and I did get one pup with mega, and have 1 from that litter with probably slight immune problems. (No, I did not breed anymore from that line, nor would I have) I echo Ed in that I don't know if the breed is in trouble or not, but as far as MY personal involvement with this breed......I have not had the problems. knock on wood. Stormy In the last 15 years and 22 liters my dogs have produced 4 bad hips 2 bad elbows 2 epilepsy 1 heart valve problem 2 bloat/torsion 3 missing teeth I have purchased dogs that developed 2 bad hips 1 twisted collapsed pasterns 1 autoimmune problem 1 bad heart 2 missing teeth Mother Nature takes a stand in everything we do and her sense of humor sometimes can be a bitch. Never say never when dealing with MN because she will bite you in the ass. I do not blame the breeders or individual dogs. It takes 2 and the combination is what causes problems. I firmly believe that the good FAR outweigh the bad. Despite some problems, we have had far more successes. I do not believe the breed is going in the toilet healthwise. Denise Groenewald _www.greenwoodshepherds.com_ (http://www.greenwoodshepherds.com/) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================