Thanks Carolyn, a great post to build on So this is where I differ from that opinion, I do feel that if the shoulder is too far forward, exhibiting little or no forechest(forchest, fourchest, 4chest - ;-) ) it will affect the balance, since the center of gravity is now moved backwards in relation to the leg and shoulder changing the cantilever point and perhaps resulting in a lifting of the forehand particularly if coupled with a straight shoulder. regards, and would love to get you feedback M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:19:00 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: Simply Amazing forechests.... Hi Mike; I meant to respond to your post........but got lost in the flurry of other responses over the weekend and ended up deleting all the posts.......therefore depending on a pretty pitiful memory!! I can tell you that I like things "simplified"......so I refer to it as "forechest"......<G>....and since it has absolutely nothing to do with the movement of the dog there is no 'specified' measurement of it that I know of.....other than "showing ahead of the shoulder in profile" and it should be deep and capacious....... As Goldbecker explained it ......the "purpose" of the forechest is for the herding dog gaiting through weeds and small low brush to catch the brunt of the constant chafing.......and simply for the beautiful balanced outline and appearance of our Breed, as I understand it. Beautiful forechest is a nice addition in beautiful type in it's "appearance" on our GSD....but especially on a nice 'stallion' male. Too much and a dog can appear and be "overloaded' and clumsy. In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the angle of the shoulder nor the front extension of a correct shoulder. Thanks for trying to actually open up a discussion about THE DOGS!!! Hang in there......... Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lindenhill German Shepherds To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Simply Amazing As I often do, I recently posted a subject on the list to instigate a discussion on certain aspects of structure of our beloved breed. Expecting a lively educational and informative discussion(some of which I got) I was not disappointed., unfortunately the object of that discussion turned into a who's resource for a given term was correct or not. I tried to steer the discussion back to the topic but what was quite surprised by the pasion displayed by those list members focused on the correct spelling debate. My disappointment is that many of those who engaged in that debate, I had held in high regard, I say to you - please do some self examination(as will I) on your motives and attitude as well as your communication style. It is very easy to get out of hand on a limitted communication medium such as this and does little to suggest how your mentoring is beneficial to others. If the list has truly devolved to that level, it offers both me as an experienced breeder nor the new comer little if any hope of learning anything of value here. I suggest that If you have a suggestion or a correction for someones post, please, as a matter of etiquette I suggest you address it privately and allow them to make(or not) a correction. My days here are numbered, Regards, M ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================