Breeding is WAY more complicated than my response. I was really
trying very hard to simplify it just to
try to explain my opinion.....which I guess did not work well. <G>
I am not a geneticist and do not claim to be.
We have done exactly that type of breeding more than most people
do....and had some of our best success at it
in my opinion.
Two of our best known was ....Grand Victor AOE CH. Mar Haven's And The
Beat Goes On ROM. And the other
one was Grand Victrix AOE CH. Mar Haven's Black Orchid P.T. ROM
Our Black Orchid was even tighter
bred than just half brother and sister. In both of those breedings
our BOSS was the sire of both sire and dam. BOSS
was one of the few dogs that I felt very comfortable doing very tight
breedings with....with no problems.
The key to that kind of breeding is to do exactly as I tried to say in
a simple way. You are definitely narrowing
the gene pool......and IMO you absolutely MUST only use dogs that are
very sound with no "known" problems
in their background.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
On Behalf Of Redacted sender "ELG440" for DMARC Subject: Question/
Grand Dam
After you figure all of that, isn't there some studies that say the
way genes interact isn't just
caused by combining? It is simple when you think about it.
It is complicated when I think about it.
I was avoiding saying anything, but years ago I had a case where
Evanhttp://gsdnational.blogspot.com/http://www.dogshowjuniors.com/GSYR
Findex.asp
http://asgardgermanshepherd.com/
[Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Reminds me of a song that was going around when I was a kid
titled..... 'I'm My Own Grampa'...... <G>
She is contributing 1/2 of the total.......but Isn't it 25% less of
NEW genes received in that litter....or 25% more of the SAME genes you
would have gotten anyway? Just getting those same genes....again.
Doubling up on her, means less "new" genes coming in since there is
one less dog bringing in more new genes? ( not talking about traits
or dominant or recessive.......just percentage ) It is hard for me
as a breeder to look at it this way...as a "percentage".....as we are
always concerned with traits, dominant genes and recessives that we
use to improve or to stay away from....
Let's just say each dog has 1,000 genes ( yeah yeah I know..... not
even close ) <G> but we have to have some kind of 'even' starting
place to get this picture. Like 1,000 building blocks. It would be
almost like not getting 25% new genes available......or blocks. <G>
You are getting the 1,000 of the Grand Dams genes twice. ( you don't
get MORE new genes from her each time she appears ) Same 1,000 genes,
but instead of 4,000 all new genes in the breeding from four lines (
or four dogs )...you are getting 3,000 new genes totaled together from
three lines. ( or dogs ) One 1,000 being a repeat of her already
'donated' 1,000. In other words...she can only bring in her
'original' 1,000 genes. If in this theory they each have 1,000
DIFFERENT genes each... all different from each other. You just
made the gene pool SMALLER, instead of one dog being a "bigger
percentage".....?? So you do not have 50% MORE genes from her. You
still just have her 1,000 ..( you have 25% less of 4,000 possible new
genes than from an outcross on all four dogs...??
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com <http://www.marhaven.com/>
On Behalf Of edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016
10:30 AMTo: freelistSubject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Question
Yes genes have different traits and expressions , I'm not saying the
genes from grandmother are exactly the same, I'm just saying
grandmother is contributing 50 % of the total! In a total out cross
both parents contribute 50% which means a litter of two non related
parents are getting 25% from the 4 grandparents.... because each pup
gets 50 % from each parent, if one grandparent appears on each side of
the pedigree that grandparent is contributing a higher percentage of
genes.... if I were in a classroom I would put a diagram on the board!
lol Ed
Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
------ Original Message ------
From: Bedkar
To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: freelist
Sent: November 10, 2016 at 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Question
No....
don't forget that there are grandsires involved.
And you must consider that different traits have
different modes of genetic transmission....some are
dominate and some are recessive.
http://thebark.com/content/trait-relationships-and-genetics-dogs
Good article on canine genetics.
_____
From: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: "freelist" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:00:09 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Question
First let me wish everyone Merry Christmas, yes in deed today IS
Christmas, but I won't get into that today.... my question is if you
have a puppy who is out of a half brother, half sister breeding both
having the same mother, is the puppy genetically 50 percent of the
grandmother.... and if so, basically the grandmother is genetically
also the mother... hard to ask this via email. Been arguing this with
my wife for two days! Ed
Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
--
-Kay Reamensnyder and Betty Doerpinghaus
-Home of Bedkar German Shepherds
-AKC Breeders of Merit
-bedkar@xxxxx
-Visit our Website: www.bedkargsd.com <http://www.bedkargsd.com/>
