To add to Beryl's post, in the cases mentioned in these posts, it's possible that the breeder's vets didn't really miss anything. An umbilical hernia that is only 1/8 of an inch at less than 8 weeks of age is definitely not going to cause any health problems, and will probably close itself. An experienced vet might not see it as a problem that needs to be discussed. At that age, the testicles may well have been down when the first vet checked, but if the puppy was stressed during the visit to the second vet, he may have withdrawn them during the examination. At that age, some pups do that. I don't think either of these are a reflection on the breeder's vet - but I would be very suspicious of the buyer's vet. He's either very inexperienced and uninformed, or he's out to make money by insisting on unnecessary surgery. Janice In a message dated 11/15/2005 7:20:02 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, arelee@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: <Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx> To: <izakabuska@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <gldnrudy@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:50 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Puppy Umbilica Hernia > It's one thing to have > a situation you disclose, write in your contract/guarantee/warranty, but to > not know and sell the puppy and have to learn from THEIR VET....sad....and > inexcusable really. > > Kathy > three generations of Dual Titled Champions live here! > > visit _Pine Hill German Shepherd Dogs_ > (http://www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds/) Kathy, I have to say it may not be inexcusable. We have to realize two things, that perhaps some people on the list haven't had very much expeirence or their Vet's may be incompetent. If it's lack of expeirence, then they need a mentor and someone to help them. If it's a Vet problem, then the breeder needs to do their homework and have a list of good vets availalbe from different area's. Over the years I have bred GSD, I have ran into all kinds of off the wall things. I always have my pups Vet checked, and encourage the new owners to have their Vet exam their pups with in the first week, and get the shchedule for additonal vacinations etc, that may be needed. I recall a few of times that people went to a Vet I knew nothing about. I usally refer to Vet's that I know of their reputation and expertise. One time a VET wanted to operate on the 9 week old puppys ears, so they would be erect! Another was concerned about the pups teeth, which were completely normal and the bite correct, for the age of the pup. In each incidence I told them I woul pay for another Vet visit, but it had to be a Vet I knew was knowledgeable or with a good refferal from a breeder I knew. In each case people didn't want to return their pup. I do know that after a few years in the breed one may hear and see such things that just make you shake your head, in wonderment. Beryl Eshom Arelee GSD Davis, CA. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================