My question was really directed towards shoulder placement not rib cage breadth. I agree differences in the rib cage would produce those results I dont' agree with the connection of "how much" prosternum(posternum) and that development, but more so, that it is connected to the more forward placement of the shoulder that we are(at least I am)Â seeing in the breed. In some cases coupled with an upright or straight shoulder. And I am currious if judges are actually verifying that. This area of the standard is a bit ambiguous in that it is not specific how much extensiont or protusion is optimal for the GSD, my personal observations(rib cage development aside) would like to see 2 inches as optimal or preferred. This same shoulder placement(forward) results in the appearance of "short necked" dogs. I dont' think we really have dogs with short necks but rather shoulder placements that make it appear as such. respectfully, M ----- Original Message ----- From: acara1997@xxxxxxx To: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:51:19 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] "Prosternum" not Posternum Mike, Unfortunately, this is a commonly made mistake with the spelling and pronunciation of this term. Â It is the "Prosternum", not the Posternum... The prosternum is simply the extension of the sternum or the breast bone. Together with the ribbing, they provide sufficient room for heart, lungs and muscle attachment. Â Specifically, a correctly proportioned and placed prosternum provides for good muscle attachment, which plays a key role in the movement of fore assembly. With the prosternum ahead of the shoulder, the muscles act in a forward direction thus pulling the upper arm to the open position. Too much prosternum, typically found in conjunction with a breast that is too wide or over-built, will cause the ulnas to bend outward, making it difficult to function properly much less, single track. Too little prosternum typically found with a narrow and under developed chest, result in the ulnas drawing inward, and the legs drawing out to the French position. Â Not to mention, insufficient room for the lungs and correct muscle attachment and usage. Therefore, no need to check with the hands as it will be visually apparent. With best regards, Randy Darnell Acara GSD... Msg: #3 in digest Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:51:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Lindenhill German Shepherds <lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: To Posternum or not to Posternum Ok all of you experts out there, how many of your dogs have a posternum extending beyond the shoulders? Of those, how many are 1-2 inches? How many of you judges actually check this with your hands? And lastly what does it all mean? regards M Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2009. Â All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================