[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: No Bracket Formula for us
- From: Hickoryhill <hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:45:01 -0700
I agree with Carolyn on this point. Let me stress that Brackett is only a
theory, it is not 100% accurate, if it were we would all be meeting with
success 100% of the time. Not every dog needs to be linebred on. Currently I
see linebreedings that I would NEVER do, mainly because I feel the dog being
linebred on is not a noteworthy enough specimen to warrant intensifying what
few qualities he may have BUT also intensifying the poor qualities that he has.
Carolyn and Frank share a similar back ground as Steve and I only started with
one brood bitch, which gave us GV Bull, we usually had no more than a couple of
litters a years probably 3 at the most, so we couldn't afford to make stupid
mistakes. We too were raising a family of three girls, so money was going all
directions! As Carolyn states, know your lines. Although I probably would not
be as adventurous as to do a half brother sister breeding, you knew your lines,
Carolyn, and it produced a GV for
you! dog breeding will never be absolute, that is what keeps it interesting.
You must study bloodlines and structure, but putting it all together is an art.
Not everyone, no matter how many shows they go to, no matter how much studying
and pouring over pedigrees they spend hours doing, no matter how much mentoring
they receive, will be able to take the information and create an outstanding
specimen of the breed, some just don't have the gift for it. Christine
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 7/26/14, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Subject: Re: No Bracket Formula for us
To: hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx, dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, July 26, 2014, 12:36 AM
We all have our own
theory and method from our own experience I guess.
Like Christine and Steve....Frank and I had no
mentor nor advice from
anyone when we
became interested in the Breed and breeding and showing,
and we were busy with a young family.
Breedings were few and far far
between as
were shows. We studied the Breed & pedigrees a lot
during
that time and went to shows
occasionally to observe, but really were
not
breeding. A litter occasionally.
At most, we live with 5 - 6 dogs. One or two
older ones, sometimes one
or two bitches
that we can use for breeding, and at times, something
young we are showing that will be placed in a
show home, or be bred
in
time. We cannot afford the time and volume for
many mistakes.
By our
own experience I would not advise anyone according to Lloyd
Brackett's formula, or any equation,
nor mine nor anyone else's formula.
I
don't think it's that simple. There are simply
some dogs or lines
I would not line breed
with, no matter what the book
says. <G>
You need to
know your dogs, know WHY you want to breed that
particular
bitch or into that line, and what
is good and not so good about the
stud you
choose according to the Breed Standard. Every reason for
every
breeding, or LINE, OR DOG, and the
reason for that decision is never
the
same to be able to plot it out on paper according to the
advice
of a mentor or another breeder.
IMO.
The original question asked if they
would be "defeating the purpose"
for doing a Lloyd Brackett breeding by going
"twice on his 2/3 formula."
WHAT
PURPOSE? Do the dogs you are line breeding on solve a
problem,
or bring in some outstanding
needs...or is it to maintain the quality?
Some dogs will produce their pedigree more than
themselves.
KNOW the pedigree.
The main advice I personally would give to
anyone is ...that YOU
KNOW YOUR DOG! KNOW
THE LINES! KNOW why it IS worth breeding, KNOw
the OUTSTANDING points, KNOW what is behind
it. KNOW what the faults
or concerns are,
KNOW what needs to be improved or utilized for the
good, and what stud and what line you need to
either bring in, or
take out, or double up
on.....and.... FOR WHAT REASON.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
----
From: On
Behalf Of HickoryhillSent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:26 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Bracket
Formula/least puppy, hodge-podge
John DeHope once told me to judge your litters
by the least as well as the
best. In an
ideal litter their should be uniformity in type and the
difference between the best puppy and the least
puppy should be nominal.
Christine
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/24/14, dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Subject To: hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx,
, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014, 7:28 PM
Agree.
Furthermore, I want
dogs/bitches from "cookie cutter" litters.
Line breed
on those and
they will breed "true". I have passed on litters
when the
litters were a hodge-podge
because, even though you might pick the best
puppy, (and it might be a heck of a dog in the
ring), it will produce
hodge-podge.
I was once told the litter is
only as good as the least puppy...and BOY
is
that true because if you
keep a dog back from that litter "least puppy"
will revisit you again and again in the
whelping box.
"Least puppy" by
the way could be structural or it could be health or
temperament....
Kathy,
member GSDCA, DVGSDC
visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/
hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx
writes:
Strongly
disagree, the first 3 generations are most important, as
often
animals produce traits like their
grandparents and not the immediate
parents.
People who do protection work are not as
interested in preserving
structural traits
that can be lost in one misstep breeding. If it were
truly this
simple as your
"mentor" states then an outstanding dog, bred to
an
outstanding bitch would always yield
outstanding progeny, I think we all
know
this is not the case. On one hand we have the
"oversimplification" of
dog
breeding, which was vocalized by
your
mentor and which usually doesn't produce desired
results, and on the
other hand we have
those who may know the top winners, but lack the
study
habits or simply don't
have the knack to know the difference
between "winners" and producers".
The later
breeders, if you
want to call them that are easily duped by big win
records
beaucoup progeny
being shown, yet they pay very little attention to the
phenotype of the progeny, they simply see
numbers, and numbers in their
minds
equal "producers. Back when I started in the breed,
(boy do I sound
old)
we
studied pedigrees, we ferreted out who the real
producers were, and we
paid
attention to the progeny phenotype. I
didn't have a mentor, so I had to
rely
on
my powers of observation and studying
bloodlines, and what lines seem to
work
well together. so what I state above is
not conjecture, but actual breeding
principles that we applied in our own
breeding program. I think this
principles
served us pretty well! Christine
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/23/14, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
<edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
My mentor in
protection dogs once told me that the most important dogs
in
a
puppy's pedigree
are the dam and the sire! Duh! Simple but true
Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
------
Original Message
------
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bracket Formula
Michelle
Graham _vicisheps@charter.net_
writes;
HI...OK I am thinking about doing a breeding based on
Bracket Formula...however it would be
going twice the
2/3 formula...both on
bitch side and on sires...is that too close &/or
would I be defeating the purpose
of doing it in the first place...just
curious if anyone had done it before and
would do it again.
Thanks Michelle
----------------------------------
I answer;
The things you
have to remember about these formulas is that they are a
tool for the toolchest not the answer to
everything. And that it is
important
you use these formulas on dogs known to you for maximum
success.
One
formula I use is the X Chromosome factor or Motherlines.
I am very
happy so far using this as a
good tool. There is a lot more to it but
If you are interested here is a starter
course on
the use of
motherlines.
http://www.westwindgsps.com/motherlines.htm
Lissa
soilentgrn@xxxxxxx
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