I think what you are seeing are stiff elbows, from what you said. This is something that I have seen too. The front does not open up from the angles of the gathered part of the gait and the elbow is locked in one position. Then the pasturn does not have the freemdom of movement it should have. But it starts at the shoulder. As discribed by several here, the front should start with a layed back upper shoulder bone, and (see book Dog Steps) between 90 (The Standard) and 120 (Dog Steps) degree angle between the upper shoulder and the upper arm, giving the elbow an an equal angle to put the forarm pointing to the ground when the dog is standing. Also the back of the upper shoulder on the spine should be parallel to the point of the elbow. If there is suffiecent angluation, the bones should form a straight line when the front is fully extended. this will not be with the forarm parelell to the ground, but rather the paw will be close to the ground but well in front of the dogs nose. Note: forwarded message attached. Sheila of Miami Mernydex GSD's Loving Obedience Dog Training --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================