Joe, unfortunately, in this litigious society, SAC has to do something in an attempt to cover our asses in the case someone decides to take the entire membership to court. Having said that, there are some legitimate concerns you have stated. For example, one that we asked Kimball about had to do withsomeone refusing to sign a waiver and attending the event. I don't expect we would call the police, sheriff's office, ATF, FBI or the CIA; but we would have to document such an event - just in case. The main concern I have is the Messier Marathon. We have people from all over the continent coming here for the first time. They are ones about whichI'm concerned. As far as who keeps the forms and how long. I'd say the orginazer and they should be kept until the statute of limitations expires. Agreeded it isn't fun having to do something like this. But it is only way to protect ourselves. Hope this helps, aj Joseph R. Goss wrote: Personally I will vote against Article XII and would hope the rest of = the=20 membership votes against this. Who is going to enforce this? How are =they=20 going to enforce? Who keeps the release forms? How do you prove who = signed=20 the form, are they going to be notarized? What do you do after you have = collected the forms at an event and find one signed Mickey Mouse? If I=20 refuse to sign will my membership be terminated? Looks to me like we=20 getting ready to travel down a road of no return. Joe Goss ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Paul Dickson" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>[1] To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>[2] Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 08:54 Subject:[sac-board] Re: SAC Constitution and Proposed Amendment On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:40:41 -0700, Paul Dickson wrote: The SAC constitution and the proposed amendment are available at: http://members.cox.net/paul.dickson/sac.constitution.html[3] I made some changes to the proposed article XII. New stuff is underscored, old is struckthough. I have major difficulty with XII.2.2. If we are on public land,how = can we require a signed release? About the only thing I can think of is requiring the disclaimer and etiquette/rules to be on the same page = (both printed and web) as the directions to the site. Comments? -Paul =20 --- Links --- 1 mailto:paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2 mailto:sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 3 http://members.cox.net/paul.dickson/sac.constitution.html