[roc-chat] Fwd: Re: Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong enough?

  • From: ENHolmberg@xxxxxxx
  • To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:12:01 -0400 (EDT)

 
That's all good as long as Murphy stays home!
 
 
In a message dated 8/18/2012 3:07:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
kurtgug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Hey Richard.   Great work on the testing.  It confirms my thoughts on fin  
attachment.  I am interested in seeing how nylon nuts hold up under high  
shock loads.  After pulling steel eye bolts straight and seeing fender  
washers pulled through 1/2 plywood bulkheads, I have my doubts about aluminum  
and 
nylon holding up.

Also, what is an adjustable 10/24  tap?

Kurt

-----Original  Message----- 
From: Richard Dierking  
Sent: Aug 18, 2012 10:20 AM 
To:  roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: [roc-chat] Using Aluminum Hardware:  Lighter but strong enough? 

Since I've had the opportunity to go through some of my old projects  
lately (cleaning out the garage), I've been taking some rocket airframes  apart 
including some destructive testing.  It's interesting to see what  holds and 
where weakness occurs.  For example, for through the wall  fins, the surface 
fillet doesn't seem to do much.  The most important  thing is that the fin 
slot is tight.  So the lesson here is to create  tight slots and don't 
expect for epoxy to fill the gap and hold strong.  

For attaching the fin, creating many small slots (1/8"  deep) in the root 
edge for attachment to the motor mount works well and  doesn't require much 
epoxy.  Bryan showed me how to do this.  If  the surface is roughed-up with 
80 grit sand paper a fillet doesn't seem  to be required.  The failure I'm 
seeing is the motor mount tube  material.  The surface of paper tubes peels 
and phenolic fractures and  peels.  And, as expected, fiberglassing the root 
to the motor mount  tube works best, and it doesn't require much resin.  In 
fact, the  lay-up can be pretty dry and it seems to do fine.  The extra 
amount of  resin I commonly use for a good finish is not necessary.  I guess  
drilling small holes in the motor mount tube where the fins are attached  might 
help hold the epoxy bond between the fin and the tube.  I haven't  tried 
this yet.
 
Another thing I've been experimenting with is the altimeter  bay.  This is 
the important part of this message, and sorry it took so  long to get around 
to it.  Recently, I've done a few  deployment tests using 3/16" aluminum 
rods that are tapped to 10-24 tread  and nylon hardware (nuts and wing nuts) 
to hold the bay  together.  Also, I reduced the size of the U bolts 
significantly.   I replaced the 1/4"-20 U bolts (1" wide) with U bolts from 
Home 
Depot that  are in packs for cable clamps (5/8" wide).  Even though the cable  
clamps say they are 1/4" size, the nuts are actually 6 mm metric.  Just  to 
give an idea of the weight savings;  Replacing the steel hardware  and 
reducing the size of the U-bolts on a 4" diameter altimeter bay reduced  the 
weight from 495 grams to 325 grams (34% less).  Also, instead of  using metal 
fender washers, I've been fiberglassing both sides of  the bulkheads, and 
switched from 1/4" thick plywood to 1/8"  thick.  So, no more fender washers.  
I'm wondering if I could  make aluminum U-bolts without causing too much 
stress on the aluminum rod  during the bend?  
 
The deployment tests have gone so well, that I just ordered some 3/16"  
high-strength aluminum (alloy 7075) rod, aluminum nuts, and other  light-weight 
hardware from McMaster-Carr.  I also ordered an adjustable  10-24 tap.  I 
would appreciate any advice on threading this new  aluminum rod.
 
So, do you think this will hold?  Are there problems with  using aluminum 
hardware I need to consider. 
 
If you're interested in using light-weight materials and techniques for  
your project, I would like to discuss at the September launch.  I'm  planning 
on launching a two-stage rocket with the 'new' hardware.
 
Richard

-- ROC-Chat  mailing list roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
//www.freelists.org/list/roc-chat  


--- Begin Message ---
  • From: Kurt Gugisberg <kurtgug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:07:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Hey Richard.  Great work on the testing.  It confirms my thoughts on fin attachment.  I am interested in seeing how nylon nuts hold up under high shock loads.  After pulling steel eye bolts straight and seeing fender washers pulled through 1/2 plywood bulkheads, I have my doubts about aluminum and nylon holding up.

Also, what is an adjustable 10/24 tap?

Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Dierking
Sent: Aug 18, 2012 10:20 AM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Using Aluminum Hardware: Lighter but strong enough?

Since I've had the opportunity to go through some of my old projects lately (cleaning out the garage), I've been taking some rocket airframes apart including some destructive testing.  It's interesting to see what holds and where weakness occurs.  For example, for through the wall fins, the surface fillet doesn't seem to do much.  The most important thing is that the fin slot is tight.  So the lesson here is to create tight slots and don't expect for epoxy to fill the gap and hold strong.  
 
For attaching the fin, creating many small slots (1/8" deep) in the root edge for attachment to the motor mount works well and doesn't require much epoxy.  Bryan showed me how to do this.  If the surface is roughed-up with 80 grit sand paper a fillet doesn't seem to be required.  The failure I'm seeing is the motor mount tube material.  The surface of paper tubes peels and phenolic fractures and peels.  And, as expected, fiberglassing the root to the motor mount tube works best, and it doesn't require much resin.  In fact, the lay-up can be pretty dry and it seems to do fine.  The extra amount of resin I commonly use for a good finish is not necessary.  I guess drilling small holes in the motor mount tube where the fins are attached might help hold the epoxy bond between the fin and the tube.  I haven't tried this yet.
 
Another thing I've been experimenting with is the altimeter bay.  This is the important part of this message, and sorry it took so long to get around to it.  Recently, I've done a few deployment tests using 3/16" aluminum rods that are tapped to 10-24 tread and nylon hardware (nuts and wing nuts) to hold the bay together.  Also, I reduced the size of the U bolts significantly.  I replaced the 1/4"-20 U bolts (1" wide) with U bolts from Home Depot that are in packs for cable clamps (5/8" wide).  Even though the cable clamps say they are 1/4" size, the nuts are actually 6 mm metric.  Just to give an idea of the weight savings;  Replacing the steel hardware and reducing the size of the U-bolts on a 4" diameter altimeter bay reduced the weight from 495 grams to 325 grams (34% less).  Also, instead of using metal fender washers, I've been fiberglassing both sides of the bulkheads, and switched from 1/4" thick plywood to 1/8" thick.  So, no more fender washers.  I'm wondering if I could make aluminum U-bolts without causing too much stress on the aluminum rod during the bend? 
 
The deployment tests have gone so well, that I just ordered some 3/16" high-strength aluminum (alloy 7075) rod, aluminum nuts, and other light-weight hardware from McMaster-Carr.  I also ordered an adjustable 10-24 tap.  I would appreciate any advice on threading this new aluminum rod.
 
So, do you think this will hold?  Are there problems with using aluminum hardware I need to consider. 
 
If you're interested in using light-weight materials and techniques for your project, I would like to discuss at the September launch.  I'm planning on launching a two-stage rocket with the 'new' hardware.
 
Richard
-- ROC-Chat mailing list roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx //www.freelists.org/list/roc-chat
--- End Message ---

Other related posts: