[real-eyes] Re: iTunes
- From: "Timothy Hornik, LMSW" <blindnotalone@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:43:49 -0600
Greetings Everyone,
This conversation is providing a very useful example on how each Screen Reader
extracts various elements differently to create accessibility for us. I am
stating this since when talking with IT departments that “conduct”
accessibility testing, they often just rely on JAWS, and believe that scripting
for JAWS means accessibility for all. However, this is extremely dangerous and
invalid. JAWS, Window Eyes, NVDA, Guide, System Access, and Voice Over all
create accessibility differently.
We in the blindness community need to remember this, and use it whenever we
discuss accessibility to those on the outside. In some cases, the
inaccessibility stems from our screen readers themselves, other times its the
software or web interface, and most of the time its a combination of both.
Because of this, I would hold off on blaming one side or the other, until the
barriers can be duplicated with another screen reader.
With the case of iTunes 12.1, we have evidence that something within the iTunes
12.1 interface impacted the parts of the screens that allows one to navigate
their collections. I noticed that NVDA handled 12.1 slightly better than Window
Eyes, while iTunes works perfect on Macs through Voice Over. This indicates, to
me that the issues with iTunes is partially Apple’s fault and something related
to the core used within the viewer menus. I say this as it has a very similar
feel to accessibility barriers imposed by Adobe products within the Mac
ecosystem. In this case, Adobe just points the finger at Apple, claiming that
their products work perfectly in Windows. To claim this is to ignore why the
two OS’ are different.
Another example is located at the top of each VA.Gov webpage, where they have a
little text outlining instructions to increase accessibility of their website.
However, the instructions, without saying so, actually were designed for JAWS,
and not other screen readers.
Regardless, we, as a community, need to promote accessibility not just for our
preferred Screen Reader, but equal access to all screen readers across OS. Here
in the US many of us have access to the extremely expensive JAWS program
through various blindness related services, educational systems, and employers,
while many individuals have to rely on low cost to free screen readers like
NVDA or even the Free Window Eyes with Office combo. Other people, like me,
purchase Apple products since you might pay more upfront, you are at least
guaranteed a full feature screen reader with upgrades for several years. None
of these should trump another, but it appears that different developers create
varying disparities from their lack of knowledge about the bigger picture of
screen readers.
Keep in mind that this is just my perspective on the situation based on efforts
advocating for universal accessibility within a couple of organizations.
Enjoy,
Tim
BlindNotAlone.com
> On Feb 17, 2015, at 08:40, Fettgather, Jim <jfettgather@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> It definitely reads better with NVDA, check it out.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robert Beach
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 8:31 AM
> To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [real-eyes] Re: iTunes
>
> It is 12.1 that changed. I didn't like 12.0 either, but at least JAWS would
> read the screen. Now it isn't reading anything in the iTunes store screen
> except iTunes store. I can navigate to the other controls and do a search,
> but I cannot read the results.
>
> Please send me the link anyway and I'll see if there is a hint that may help.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Robert Lee Beach
> Assistive Technology Specialist
> Kansas City Kansas Community College
> 7250 State Avenue
> Kansas City, KS 66112
> 913-288-7671
> rbeach@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Reginald George
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 8:28 AM
> To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [real-eyes] Re: iTunes
>
> Applevis podcast 623 gives excellent instructions on navigating iTunes 12.
> I don't know if anything has changed in 12.1. It's a short podcast with many
> great tips. You must use f6, and also the menus to get to various features
> of the interface now. I would be happy to send this directly to anyone who
> needs it if you write me off list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Fettgather
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 4:14 AM
> To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [real-eyes] Re: iTunes
>
>
> This version, which also addresses computers with older video cards, may also
> address some of the accessibility concerns with this version of iTunes,
> :
>
> http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1784?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jose
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 11:56 AM
> To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [real-eyes] Re: iTunes
>
> The post went on to indicated that the fs team has contacted Apple
> developers, they spoke to a very kind understanding teck. Fs is now going to
> give apple some time to resolve this unintended problem.
>
> So sounds like those who needed to know already know.
>
> Good news is that there is a podcast
> by a man named Marko, Wish I could send you the link, however I just happen
> to find his pod cast on the agogo app, under the universal access list. It's
> posted on the apple viz podcast.
> If anyone wants to listen to it, I can try sharing it to the list...
> Applevis.com has a number of post on this problem.
> Note that I didn't have time to listen to the full podcast. I simply learned
> what I needed to do to transfer voice memos and moved on for now...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:real-eyes-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robert Beach
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 10:25 PM
> To: real-eyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [real-eyes] iTunes
>
> What on earth has Apple done to iTunes now? It is even less functional for a
> screen reader than before. I don't get it.
>
> If anybody has any tips on how to get the new iTunes to work with a screen
> reader, please let me know. I can't get anything to read in the iTunes Store
> window.
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