I think Ken is channeling a certain famous late resident of Hanover County from
a few years back who went on a similar "rant" in St. John's Church! The name
escapes me…but both are right in their respective eras!
Russell Y. makes sound points as well and both arguments further strengthen the
case for serious consideration of being an independent entity.
Truth be told, if the RC3R's trains were "bad-ordered" and tracks (layouts)
"out of service", that would put the parent in a bit of a fix with the SMV for
Thanksgiving weekend…just saying…HOWEVER, we shouldn't do that, but take the
high road (or high rail, in this case) as the greater good is the public and
seeing the smiles and looks of awe on the children and the children at heart.
Bill M.
From: rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
Peter Condro
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 3:46 PM
To: rc3r@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rc3r] Re: Fwd: Dues document
Ken.....this is not a rant at all......you have articulated in a logical and
elegant fashion the problem with the policy as written and why we should not
meekly accept it.
I would support either one of your 2 proposals, but especially the 1st one. The
obviates the need of the treasurer to be a full-time bookkeeper....I believe we
are being very generous.....we do not ask for a cent from the Science Museum
income! We don't care that the money is being spent on a full-time set up for
the other SIGs. We were glad to do that insofar as we were basically left alone
to support ourselves. Correct me if I am wrong.....we do not even get a share
of the general dues money....So be it......just leave us alone.
This is starting to sound like the Eastern Seaboard of North America in 1770-75!
I do not not want to sever my ties to the Mother club. However, unjust taxation
cannot be tolerated!
To go back to 2010, we joined as a RF&P sig in order to get the non-profit
status and liability insurance. We didn't think we could afford
it..............Now, we know.....we can if we have too. We can even afford our
own website if we have too. Let's hope it does not come to that.
Peter
On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Ken Young <kanawha72@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Before I start let me apologize for the length of the rant below.
I don't have any issues with the Dues policy, but have major concerns with the
Donation Policy.
Monetary Donations:
* "All donations made by cash or check shall be directed to the RF&P
Treasurer. This includes... donation jars....and ....related honorariums of any
value"
* This would mean any donation/honorarium we received such as cash
donations collected at the GBGH after the raffle was completed, the $200 check
the GBGH gave us last year, the money we got from The Goddard School, and the
$500 from the Chesterfield Fair would go directly to the RF&P Treasury.
* The status of raffle proceeds is undefined however from the general
tone of the policy that would probably also be directed to the RF&P Treasury.
* "Distribution of this income shall be at the board's discretion". -
This is absolutely unacceptable. While the present board may be benevolent
towards us, a future board may not. There is no guarantee that money the RC3R
collects will not be redirected to support the Ashland operation or even
another SIG.
Non-Monetary Donations:
"All cash sale proceeds are to the benefit of the RF&P. The RF&P Board shall
decide the use or distribution of any such proceeds". - Again the same problem
as the monetary donations proceeds being controlled exclusively by the RF&P
Board. RC3R was given a substantial donation of non O gauge model trains and
other modeling supplies. I have conveyed the HO related trains to the HO SIG as
per their request, but still have the other narrow gauge HO and non train model
stuff. My intention was to sell this with the proceeds going to the RC3R
treasury. If it is to go to the RF&P Treasury I see no incentive of going to
the trouble of selling it. I will simply deliver it all to Ashland and let them
figure out what to do with it.
As it is presently written this policy is detrimental to the RC3R SIG. Since we
have only one vote on the RF&P Board there is the very real possibility of
money we raise going to the benefit of the Ashland operation which we do not
participate in or to another SIG. Therefore there is little incentive for us to
go to the effort to raise money or take non-monetary donations.
The execution of this policy depends heavily on the quality of the RF&P
Treasurer. The previous Treasurer gave me fits (let me point out I am not
talking about the present Treasurer) over the RF&P's liability policy. He let
it lapse and had an extremely hard time understanding it was his job to renew
it. I fear a poor treasurer won't follow policy or will handle the money sent
from us haphazardly.
The RF&P Board at present has a limited number of meetings and takes a long
time to make decisions, this policy being a prime example. I do not want to
have RC3R in a position where we need to have to ask for money from the RF&P
Treasury. Had this policy been in effect earlier in the year we would have had
to have the Board's approval to obtain the money from the RF&P Treasury to
purchase the new trailer. No doubt it would have taken a long time to do this.
If there is to be a written policy, then I suggest these be considered:
* The SIGS are to be free to raise money in any manner (including
monetary donations, honorariums, and sale of donated items) and simply report
income/expenses at the first of the year to the RF&P Treasurer as we are doing
now. This reporting can be increased to quarterly if the RF&P feels the need
for closer monitoring. Money raised by the SIGS can be used by the SIG that
raised it in any manner needed as long as it complies with IRS rules.
* If the RF&P deems all money raised must be sent to the RF&P Treasury a
fixed distribution must be set up. For example: Each SIG receives 1/3 of all
money raised by the entire RF&P before any RF&P expenses are paid (that
includes rent, utilities, and repairs for Ashland). Each SIG would be assessed
their portion of any common to the club expenses that they use. This would be
beneficial to RC3R as we would therefore get 1/3 of the Science Museum
payment, 1/3 of the Omni display payment, 1/3 of all the member dues, 1/3 of
the money RC3R raised, and 1/3 of any money the other to SIGs raised. Our only
common to the RF&P expense we have is 1/3 of the liability insurance.
At present the only benefits we get from being part of the RF&P are the
non-profit status and the liability insurance coverage. Of course these are
significant benefits, but do not outweigh the downside of this policy. We do
not ask for a third of the payment the Science Museum makes to the RF&P even
though we participate in the show and are part of the RF&P. Conveying all of
the money we raise to the RF&P as this policy is presently written is a deal
breaker. If it stands as it is written now we need to explore breaking from the
RF&P and going are own way.
Ken
On 10/24/2016 8:29 AM, Bill Michie wrote:
Good morning! Having reviewed the RF&P policies discussed at yesterday's
meeting, here are my comments/thoughts, for what they're worth:
RF&P Dues Process – Beginning with calendar year 2017
Item 5: "A copy of this roster shall be made available to the membership
[propose adding: at the time the roster is generated and distributed to each
SIG]."
Corporation Policy regarding Donations
· Monetary Donations: A comment was made yesterday on the RC3R's raffle
funds. By definition of the term "honorarium", funds generated by the RC3R
raffle DO NOT qualify as a monetary donation.
· Non-Monetary Donations
o Item 2: Second sentence is grammatically incorrect and needs to be
restated.
o Item 9: Propose restating to read: All cash sale proceeds of an SIG are
to be reported to the RF&P Treasurer pursuant to reporting guidelines set by
the RF&P Treasurer.
Unless a convincing argument can be made to the contrary, it appears the IRS
rules and regulations governing 501(c)(3) entities are being used to gain more
(or total) control over SIG funds when reporting of those funds (income and
outgo) to the parent (RF&P) should be sufficient.
Bill M.
From: rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rc3r-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
William Robertson
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 8:03 PM
To: rc3r@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rc3r] Fwd: Dues document
RF & P Donations Policy and RF & P Dues Policy attached.
Open for discussion at the meeting on Sunday or by mail.
Thanks Jerry for sharing.
Bill R.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robertson, William <William.Robertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 7:42 PM
Subject: Fwd: Dues document
To: "wsrsummer@xxxxxxxxx" <wsrsummer@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jerry P Carr <jpcarr126@xxxxxxx>
Date: October 22, 2016 at 2:46:40 PM EDT
To: "WILLIAM S. ROBERTSON" <William.Robertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fwd: Dues document
FYI
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Bill Dessent (Energy - 2)" <bill.dessent@xxxxxxx>
Date: October 21, 2016 at 4:26:29 PM EDT
To: Richard Morley <rgmorley16@xxxxxxxxx>, Steve Stalnaker
<stevestalnaker@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Dave Beasley <pawpaw0549@xxxxxxx>, Bill Lythgoe
<wlythgoe@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Jerry P Carr <jpcarr126@xxxxxxx>,
"sitzmans@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sitzmans@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Dues document
Gentlemen,
As discussed, attached are copies of the proposed dues collection document and
the proposed donations process document. Give them a review, respond with
comments, and we’ll take it from there. I believe we were all mostly on board
with the dues proposal, so if you’re good with it as written, please reply to
all to that effect.
Thanks,
Bill
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