[pure-silver] Re: NOW: Exposing paper was Re: POP withpapernegs?
- From: anclancy@xxxxxxxxxxx
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:09:51 +0000
To Ralph,
well put and amen !
regards
ann
-------------- Original message --------------
> It is often a sobering experience to look at these old images.
>
> Here we are, having the best cameras and optics, the newest inventions in
> light-metering equipment, mechanical marvels of darkroom toys, written
> instructions from the masters, the latest and greatest chemicals and
> scientific advice, and then look at old images...
>
> There is much more to learn, and it ain't science, I tell you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Ralph W. Lambrecht
>
>
>
>
> On 12/17/04 3:34 AM, "Gene Johnson" wrote:
>
> > I'm glad you brought Sally up. She just amazes me. I know she is
> > controversial these days, but I personally think her pictures are brave and
> > true and extremely powerful, not to mention technically masterful. I'll
> > concede to anyone their right to think whatever they want, but that is my
> > opinion.
> >
> > I'm starting to come around to your point about Dmax too. Most of my
> > favorite pictures nowadays are really old and printed pretty softly.
> >
> > Here is an example of a Leo card on eBay. (watch out! nudity!) Not much
> > Dmax
> > here. I love this stuff.
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1507&item=6139204308&;
> >
> > rd=1
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DarkroomMagic"
> > To: "PureSilverNew"
> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:46 PM
> > Subject: [pure-silver] Re: NOW: Exposing paper was Re: POP withpapernegs?
> >
> >
> >> I think you're on the right track. If you can put your feelings and
> > emotion
> >> into a picture, you can't go wrong. I advocate to get to know your
> >> materials, which in most cases means, stick to one film and paper and
> > print
> >> the 'hell' out of it.
> >>
> >> A perfect print doesn't need all tones from black to white, but many good
> >> images have it. Not all good pictures live from the highlights, but many
> > of
> >> them do.
> >>
> >> The only thing, I'm really sure of, Dmax is over-rated. A good image does
> >> not need a solid black! Open shadows are more important than the paper's
> >> maximum black. However, a print, hiding or excluding tones close to
> >> paper-white, always looks a bit on the dull side to me.
> >>
> >> People made perfect prints when papers reached Dmax at 1.5 to 1.7. Making
> >> papers now, which can reach 2.1 to 2.3, has not made those prints
> > obsolete,
> >> but it has provided a lot of prints with too much contrast.
> >>
> >> Old printers always knew the value of highlight printing. The obsession
> > with
> >> increasing Dmax got us off-track. Take a look at Sally Man to see what I
> >> mean.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ralph W. Lambrecht
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/16/04 4:37 PM, "Gene Johnson" wrote:
> >>
> >>> I guess I sort of started this.
> >>>
> >>> I think the business of trying to apply rules to what in the end is at
> > least
> >>> partly art is a tricky business. For good or bad, I find myself
> > breaking my
> >>> negatives into "types" sometimes. I'll see something in the neg that
> > may or
> >>> may not be what was actually there when I shot it and make some kind of
> >>> creative judgement about how I want to approach the printing process to
> >>> achieve that desired "look". Like, "ooh, this is a dark moody forest
> > pic"
> >>> or "this is a twinkling highlights off of wet rocks in a stream picture"
> > or
> >>> " this is one of those nostalgic girl walking across smooth sand at low
> > tide
> >>> on an overcast day shots". I actually try to fight that but it's hard.
> > My
> >>> mind's eye wants things to follow established patterns and it takes
> > effort
> >>> to keep it open and look at things with fresh eyes as much as possible.
> >>>
> >>> I've wandered a bit. What I really wanted to contribute was my feeling
> > that
> >>> I want the picture to guide my approach. I want to let it show me what
> > it
> >>> needs and then print for that, whether it's warm comfortable mid tones
> > or
> >>> glowing highlights or unreal shadow detail or whatever.
> >>>
> >>> Ralph, I'll have to admit that it's hard for me to take pictures of
> > people,
> >>> especially women's faces, without careful attention to the higher skin
> >>> tones. That's where I walk the fine line between that smooth glowing
> > look I
> >>> love so much, and blowing out important texture. Man that's fun. It's
> > kind
> >>> of what got me into the POP question in the first place. There was a
> > French
> >>> postcard studio called Leo with an accent on the e that I'm pretty sure
> >>> printed on POP. A photographer named Mandel shot for them and he's
> > rapidly
> >>> becoming a major photographic hero of mine. It's probably not
> > everyone's
> >>> cup of tea, but aside from Mandel's artistry, I just love the play
> > between
> >>> the highlights and the mid tones and shadows with what appears to be a
> >>> fairly narrow density range. There's not a true black anywhere. I
> > also
> >>> love the orangey red color :)
> >>>
> >>> Here's some of my recent messing around.
> >>> http://gothicsandiego.com/hzao/index.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "DarkroomMagic"
> >>> To: "PureSilverNew"
> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:09 AM
> >>> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: NOW: Exposing paper was Re: POP with
> > papernegs?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I just can't imagine a high-key image in which highlights are less
> >>> important
> >>>> than midtones.
> >>>>
> >>>> Even with portraits, I would still prefer an image with good highlights
> >>>> (probably the most lit side of the face), good open shadows and letting
> >>> the
> >>>> medium skin tones fall in between, over one where the medium skin tones
> >>> are
> >>>> theoretically perfect or 100% realistic, but the highlights are blown
> > out
> >>> or
> >>>> the shadows are dead.
> >>>>
> >>>> The only exception to 'expose for the highlights and control the
> > shadows
> >>>> with contrast', I can think of, are low-key images.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ralph W. Lambrecht
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/16/04 8:08 AM, "Ryuji Suzuki" wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Highlights are much less important than midtones in many types of
> >>>>> images, including but not limited to portraits. Others are
> >>>>> commercial/product photos and many high key images like scenes in
> >>>>> heavy fog.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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