hi. well it could have been my fault the first time. but jaws screwed it up the first time. My professor could not even read the code in a text editor. was a real mess. well think i have sorted out the checkboxes falling off the edge of the form. i select the controls like the group box and the check box. then i go to format, then centre in form. then select the horizontal and vertical option. so only problem, got left, is how far left to try to move the list box. or maybe i can do it in pixals. well i did send the coordiates of the form controls to the list. cheers Marvin. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind