Hi. where can i get the dev c++, and will give both a try. well for java and eclipse, maybe i downloaded the wrong version. is there a beginners tutorial to using eclipse, instead of having to wade through all the documentation. and also the annoying class template, every time i would launch eclipse. do not have it any more, so tried to use the hello world sample tutorial, and could not get the past couple of screens, where i created the file and the class, but could not get to the text editor to do this. so a newbie at eclipse and java. so let me know. cheers Marvin. E-Mail: startrekcafe@xxxxxxxxx Msn: startrekcafe@xxxxxxx Skype: startrekcafe