Hi. well, doing my vb projects, and now did align my controls, and use the arrow keys to align controls and until they said no overlapp. but for some strange reason, had 2 group boxes, and two sets of radio buttons, but when i run the project, when i tab, the two sets of radio buttons, are all in one group. so how do i fix this, and align it, so there are spaces for my controls. this is the only problem i have had, and align the controls, and jaws seems to read it fine using the insert b key, and reads fine. it does not seem to read that well if i route the jaws pc to jaws cursur. and how do i fix this? yep, will not use the table panel layout manager, just aligning controls. can you help me and how do i align the controls, and how to visualize the width, height and the spacing and position in my head, as a totally blind programmer. did have sight when i was younger, but now totally blind. cheers Marvin. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind