[pchelpers] Re: Networking - Calling on all computer gurus forhelp
- From: "Ekhart GEORGI (last name last)" <Ekhart.GEORGI@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pchelpers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:01:22 +0200
Hi Scott
> EGlnl> I'm sure you're right, i don't have much experience. I was just really
> EGlnl> annoyed at the need to do an incredible amount of research to learn how
> EGlnl> to connect an XP to an existing 98+95 home network and at the need to
> EGlnl> install a protocol missing on a brand new M$ computer because the
> EGlnl> default protocol is dangerous for a home network.
>
> If you're using an XP system as an internet router, that's usually
> easy; jus use the networking wizard, and it creates a floppy for you to
> use on the other computers.
I clearly remember that some source said that's not possible because the
XP networking wizard doesn't work with or creates problems with Windows
95. I can't find that source just now, but in any case, it seemed (and
seems) to be less risky and more sensible to not mess around with a
functioning 98+95 network and to make the XP adapt to it instead of the
other way around. I was supported in that idea by other sources i found
at the time like this one:
Even if it tells you to do it, don't run Windows XP's Network Setup
Wizard on the other networked computers. You want to make the Windows XP
computer conform to the existing network. The Wizard wants to make the
rest of the network conform to XP.
(http://practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/addxp.htm)
Now i found it; it not only doesn't work with 95 (which one could
*almost* understand in the insanely-paced computer business) but also
with 2000 and NT!:
Windows XP has a built-in Network Setup Wizard that makes it easy to
configure networking on computers running Windows 98, Windows 98 Second
Edition, Windows Millennium Edition, and Windows XP. The Wizard does not
work on computers running Windows 95, Windows NT, or Windows 2000.
(http://practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp_ics/networksetupwiz.htm)
An XP computer should be able to recognize an already existing home
network running on NetBEUI and be able to fit in automatically instead
of making the user waste a lot of time reconfiguring the other computers
or waste a lot of time installing NetBEUI on the XP after searching for
it and for instructions on how and whether to do this.
The fact that XP's network setup "wizard"(!!) doesn't work with other
*MS* computers that XP *could* network with easily and well such as 95,
2000, and NT looks like very hard proof that MS tries to force people to
continually buy new computers and to even force them to get rid of "old"
computers by making it difficult to use them even for basic tasks like
being networked as backup drives.
> EGlnl> If the default protocol, TCP/IP, is not safe for home networking,
> EGlnl> NetBEUI should be on every new laptop, not just the pro version. The
> EGlnl> very least would be to provide it on the Web.
>
> It didn't occur to me before, but I don't think there's a problem
> unless the computers in the network have public IP addresses. If
> you're using a NAT router, the router acts as a firewall, so that
> incoming packets must be a direct response to an outgoing packet,
> otherwise the router doesn't know which computer on the network to
> send the packet to. I think the only time you'd have a problem is when
> you have one computer acting as a bridge (which merges networks,
> basically like a hub/switch), and even then, unless the other
> computers on the network are using public addresses, the exposure is
> limited.
Thanks a lot for this and all the other information on NAT etc. in your
post. I haven't understood it all yet, especially the ports part, but i
hope to have time to get back to it sometime soon.
It seems my combination ADSL modem + router has NAT possibility, but
it's apparently not activated and i couldn't find any info on the
manufacturer's site on how to do that:
(ftp://ftp.avaks.com/rr44/rr44specsUK.pdf
http://www.avaks.com/RR44.html?id=H7Vf7K8z)
I guess that i'll have to call them.
I do seem to have public IP addresses on all the three computers i have
on my home network, and since this seems to be the most common situation
at least in this country, TCP/IP as the default home networking protocol
looks like a fairly common and in any case completely unnecessary
problem literally created by MS.
The case of all computers getting public IP addresses specifically
mentioned on
http://practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/network_protocols.htm
is exactly what got me convinced that TCP/IP is a dangerous file sharing
protocol specifically for my situation, and since most users don't know
what they have, a dangerous and senseless default! (In addition to being
a senseless waste of time switching an existing well-functioning network
to XP's default instead of having XP adapt!):
If your existing network uses NetBEUI for File and Printer Sharing,
consider changing to a different protocol. Most networks can safely use
TCP/IP. The main exceptions to this rule are when:
* All of the networked computers are connected directly to a cable
or DSL modem and receive public IP addresses from an Internet service
provider.
>>>A router converts from one network to another, so that, for example, a local
>>>(home) network with multiple IP addresses can connect to the outside
>>>world via a single IP address (which acts as an inbound firewall; many
>>>firewalls work in exactly this way).
>
>
> EGlnl> I finally found out that my computers get three different IP addresses.
> EGlnl> Does that mean the LAN is connected to the outside world with these or
> EGlnl> does my combination modem/router hide them behind another one? I'm sure
> EGlnl> you know an easy way to find out if there's only one address visible
> EGlnl> from outside.
>
> What three addresses?
I've got my XP and 98 connected now, and the IP addresses are
80.186.147.187
80.186.158.35
I found some info somewhere that said these are public. Is that true?
Other info in the XP's LAN status box:
address type: assigned by DHCP
subnet mask: 255.255.224.0
default gateway: 80.186.128.1
The 98's winipcfg also produces:
adapter address (or something like that in Finnish): 00-30-67-04-D2-C9
subnet mask: 255.255.224.0
default gateway: 80.186.128.1
> There should only be one visible to the outside, and on the inside,
> there should be one per network adapter (so if you have a computer
> acting as a router, it would have one IP address for each of the 2
> network cards), plus the "localhost" (self) IP, which is 192.0.0.1 (on
> Macs, this is supposedly 0.0.0.0).
How can i find out what is visible from outside? I ran the Sygate scan
on http://scan.sygate.com/probe.html and got the following result for
the XP (and the equivalent for the 98) with the same IP addresses, but
it seems to also say that my outside address could still be something else?:
We have determined that your IP address is 80.186.147.187
This is the public IP address that is visible to the internet.
Note: this may not be your IP address if you are connecting through a
router, proxy or firewall.
No hurry answering
Thanks again, Ekhart
Regards, John Durham (list moderator) <http://modecideas.com/contact.html?sig>
Freelists login at //www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/lsg2.cgi
List archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/pchelpers
PC-HELPERS list subscribe/unsub at http://modecideas.com/discuss.htm?sig
Good advice is like good paint- it only works if applied.
Other related posts:
