RE: EM access to developers
- From: Iggy Fernandez <iggy_fernandez@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 16:03:17 -0800
It's a good debate. In my book, the priorities for database administrators
should be security, backups, availability, high availability, disaster
recovery, software installation, database creation, upgrades, patches, audits,
compliance, etc.
Iggy
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:37:00 -0500
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: EM access to developers
Iggy, in my opinion, that's a bit
unrealistic. Developers have in depth knowledge of their tools and
related business knowledge. Making them responsible for all
aspects of performance would mean to put too much weight on their
backs. Besides, what would DBA do in such a scheme of things?
Let's face it, DBA is the natural predator of developers, needed
for the balance and harmony in the ecosystem.
On 01/30/2015 06:23 PM, Iggy Fernandez wrote:
I'm in favor of separation of duties and
specialization but, in my book, the application developers who
developed the application are responsible for all aspects of
application performance not the database administrators and
therefore I want to give developers complete and unfettered
access to performance information. That includes Statspack, AWR,
ASH, 10053 traces, 10046 traces, and real-time information. The
current crop of tools don't support this very well and, in my
book, that's a design defect.
Iggy
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:07:53 +0000
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: EM access to developers
Are we strictly
talking about non-database developers here?
As a database
developer, I get a lot of my projects by watching the
performance pages in OEM and finding queries that are
either slow, or are being slowed due to concurrency
conflicts. You might say OEM gives me a large portion
of my projects. Granted, I could get them straight from
the database in the tables OEM uses, but OEM is a much
quicker method when you're exploring recent history.
Stephen
From:
"MacGregor, Ian A." <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent:
Friday, January 30, 2015 3:01 PM
Subject:
RE: EM access to developers
Both SQL*Developer and OEM provide capabilities
which are useful to DBA's and developers. In OEM
you can control access to a target, and ensure that
access is read only, but you really cannot control
which panels a user sees. Much of what is presented
is of little value to the developer.
What developers want from OEM is to be able to view
the overall health of the system, and whether any
malaise is being caused by what they support. OEM
comes closer to providing this than SQL Developer but
is not there yet. It's been a few years since I
looked at the SQL Developer capabilities in this area
it seemed that it required giving a way the keys of
the kingdom.
Another problem with granting OEM access to
developers is the load it may place on the OMS.
Ian MacGregor
-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mladen Gogala
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 1:53 PM
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: EM access to developers
Hi Pete,
I beg to differ. EM is a DB management tool and I
cannot fathom what would developers do with it? SQL
plans are available from SQL Developer. Developers
should use development tools, DBA should use
management tools. It's not us and them, it's a
division of labor. I doubt that developers would be
interested in how long did the backup run or how many
log switches are generated during the peek time
business hours. So, it's us using EM and them using
SQL Developer and Eclipse. That's just the natural
order of things.
On 01/30/2015 02:28 PM, Peter Sharman wrote:
Quick answer: Not enough. J
As Courtney mentioned, a lot more is possible more
easily with EM12c than in previous releases. We
really should be getting away from the “us versus
them” mentality we’ve had for way too long between
DBA’s and developers. As DBA’s, give the developers
access so they can do their job properly but in a
secured manner. As developers, use the tools that
have been provided to understand and resolve your
issues.
Easy, right? ;)
Pete
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Pete Sharman
Database Architect, DBaaS
Enterprise Manager Product Suite
33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61262924095 <tel:+61262924095> | |
Fax: +61262925183 <fax:+61262925183> | |
Mobile: +61414443449
________________________________
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA
________________________________
From: kyle Hailey [mailto:kylelf@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:15 AM
To: ORACLE-L
Subject: EM access to developers
Quick poll : how many folks give developers
logins to EM?
Last I was talking to people about 4 years ago
no one was doing that. Have times changed?
I know EM Express looks perfect for developers
but I'm asking about access to regular EM.
Thanks
Kyle Hailey
http://kylehailey.com
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
http://mgogala.freehostia.com
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
http://mgogala.freehostia.com
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