Hi all, Regarding Rich Hoyer's reply to Paul Sullivan's comments: Web-based bird databases such as BirdNotes or eBird provide good ways to archive bird observations in a way that makes it easy to search for them, but they have some stifling limitations, in terms of human communication. Databases tend to be better for storing numbers than nuance. If you can easily describe your observations with a few bits of data (species name, estimate of numbers, and perhaps a code to show nesting status, sex or age), you can plug it in there. BirdNotes and eBird both support storing additional, free-text "footnotes" which allow you to give details to support your identification, notes on behavior, etc. However, these sorts of things only account for a small percentage of the postings on OBOL. Suppose that you want to report an observation of a Brewer's Blackbird terrorizing an unidentified peep -- do you file it in the database under Brewer's Blackbird, "Sandpiper sp.," or all of the above? Or if you want to mention that you saw "hundreds" of phalaropes on Fopiano Reservoir, good luck getting one of these databases to accept "hundreds" in the box where it asks for a number. Also, let's face it, auto-generated reports from databases make for extremely DULL reading! When BirdNotes first got rolling in the late 1990s, one of the most common complaints I heard was that OBOL readers didn't want to read through big, long checklists full of common birds. In response, most BirdNotes users tried to limit this type of report, and instead just mention highlights and refer to www.birdnotes.net for folks who wanted to see the full list. Now with eBird gaining popularity, we're starting to see more of these plain-list reports, once again (or else very brief reports with a link that points to the list on eBird). However, even when these lists contain footnotes, they are seldom written with human discussion in mind -- more like terse, quickly jotted-down notes. Written-word forums like OBOL offer the possibility of a much more rich level of discussion (along with plenty of banality, of course). Between OBOL and Oregon's many thriving regional birding lists, there are thousands of subscribers who apparently appreciate this way of getting their bird news. Even 15 years since the advent of BirdNotes, and however long it's been since eBird came along, thousands of birders obviously continue to value this more "human" method of communication -- even if it seems old-fashioned to some of the more technology-driven folks. Let's face it, the issue of searching through list-serve archives is going to stay with us for a long time. It's not going to be solved by eBird evangelists saying, "You should just use eBird," any more than it was solved, 15 years ago, by me urging birders to use BirdNotes. So what's to be done? First, hang onto the archives, and keep copying them forward onto new storage media as computers evolve (5.25 floppies, 3.25 floppies, CD-ROMS, DVDs, ...). Second, develop and apply tools for cataloging those archives in a form that will make them easier to search in the future. About 10 years ago, thinking about this issue from a field notes perspective, I wrote a simple GUI program to process OBOL postings into a standard spreadsheet format. The idea was that a volunteer using this program could simply load up a month's worth of digests and step through each posting. The computer would pick out the name of the observer(s) from the posting header, then step through the text to find each bird that was mentioned, highlight it in one window. The program would also show how it was interpreting the information in terms of database fields (species name, quantity, date, county, location, observer(s), etc. If it misinterpreted something, you could just edit that field, then click on the button to store the record, and move on. More into the gory details, this program used fuzzy pattern-recognition algorithms to build up a vocabulary of bird species names (including species nicknames like "butterbutt," and to pick up frequent misspellings or variations such as "Semi-palmated" and "widgeon"), and recognize quantitative words/phrases like "several, "a few," "dozens," "none," etc. along with numerals and simple plurality (-es or -s on the end of a species name). I never fully succeeded in teaching the program to decipher Alan Contreras' postings, but it worked for postings by most of the rest of you who were birding at that time. Using this program, it took me about half a day to a day to process a month's worth of OBOL digests (not much longer than it would take to read through all of them), and get them into an easily searchable spreadsheet format. At the bottom of this posting, I've tacked on a sample from the OBOL digest from August 2, 2003 (10 years ago today). It's kind of fun to look back through these reports. I'd forgotten about the albino swallow at Fern Ridge I still have this program, and I still have the OBOL digests from that period. It wouldn't take such a huge volunteer effort to process all of the OBOL digests, from the mid-1990s through the present, and get them into this format. 12 volunteers (1% of OBOL subscribers) could do it in a couple of weeks. I think that route would be preferable to pushing people who prefer ordinary human language to "get with the times" and start keying all of their observations into a database. Good birding, Joel [The following is an excerpt of processed OBOL digest postings from August 2, 2003] Common Nighthawk,s,02 Aug 2003,Clatsop,Gnat Creek Falls,"Lee Cain, Lori Cain, Evan Cain, & ...","actively feeding over head the entire time, 1930-2115 hrs. Also observed them mobbing the Great Horned Owl successfully" Blue Grouse,1,02 Aug 2003,Clatsop,Gnat Creek Falls,"Lee Cain, Lori Cain, Evan Cain, & ..."," booming heard" Common Nighthawk,4,02 Aug 2003,Clatsop,Gnat Creek Falls,"Lee Cain, Lori Cain, Evan Cain, & ..."," feeding in flight over watch site entire time" Bufflehead,1,27 Jul 2003,Coos,North Spit Coos Bay (Weyerhauser pond),Tim Rodenkirk,"female" Green-winged Teal,1,31 Jul 2003,Coos,North Spit Coos Bay (Weyerhauser pond),Tim Rodenkirk Elegant Tern,1,01 Aug 2003,Coos,"Empire area, Coos Bay" (Pigeon Point),Tim Rodenkirk Long-billed Curlew,1,01 Aug 2003,Coos,"Empire area, Coos Bay" (Pigeon Point),Tim Rodenkirk Whimbrel,1,01 Aug 2003,Coos,"Empire area, Coos Bay" (Pigeon Point),Tim Rodenkirk Semipalmated Plover,40,01 Aug 2003,Coos,"Empire area, Coos Bay" (Pigeon Point),Tim Rodenkirk Baird's Sandpiper,2,01 Aug 2003,Coos,North Spit Coos Bay (Weyerhaeuser pond),Tim Rodenkirk Semipalmated Sandpiper,1,01 Aug 2003,Coos,North Spit Coos Bay (Weyerhaeuser pond),Tim Rodenkirk,"still around" Bufflehead,1,25 Jul 2003,Coos,North Spit Coos Bay (Weyerhaeuser pond),Tim Rodenkirk,"female" Western/Least Sandpiper,120,01 Aug 2003,Coos,"Empire area, Coos Bay",Tim Rodenkirk Long-billed Dowitcher,50,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell" Peep sp.,less than 100,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell","mostly Leasts" Greater Yellowlegs,several,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell" Pectoral Sandpiper,5,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell" Semipalmated Plover,1,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell","at least" Peregrine Falcon,1,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell","large immature female" Black Tern,noted,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell","numbers are starting to decrease now that the most of the young have fledged, bt we did see one adult carrying food out toward the nesting area." swallow,1,02 Aug 2003,Lane,Fern Ridge,"David Irons, Paul Sherrell","completely albino, species not determined." ... Pectoral Sandpiper,1,02 Aug 2003,Lane,"Fisher Butte Unit, FRR",Ellen Cantor,"came right up to the edge of the mud and fed quite awhile right next to a Wilson's snipe" Wilson's Snipe,noted,02 Aug 2003,Lane,"Fisher Butte Unit, FRR",Ellen Cantor Golden-Plover sp.,1,02 Aug 2003,Coos,New River,"Dave Lauten, Kathy Castelein","unidentified alternate plumage" Long-billed Dowitcher,2,02 Aug 2003,Portland Metro Region,Sauvie Island (Holman Point),Gerard Lillie Swainson's Thrush,1,02 Aug 2003,Multnomah,"Mt. Tabor, Portland",Gerard Lillie,"migrant/dispersant" Wilson's Warbler,1,02 Aug 2003,Multnomah,"Mt. Tabor, Portland",Gerard Lillie,"migrant/dispersant" Black-headed Grosbeak,2,02 Aug 2003,Multnomah,"Mt. Tabor, Portland",Gerard Lillie,"migrant/dispersant" Least Sandpiper,5,02 Aug 2003,Portland Metro Region,Sauvie Island,Gerard Lillie -- Joel Geier Camp Adair area north of Corvallis