[net-gold] Do "Alien Species" Exist in the Universe?" What's the Drake Equation Have to Say? #2
- From: "David P. Dillard" <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 02:09:01 -0500 (EST)
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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:19:12 -0800
From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Net-Gold] Do "Alien Species" Exist in the
Universe?" What's the Drake Equation Have to Say? #2
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This post corrects some errors in my previous post of today 22 Jan 2014.
Sorry for the bother.
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If you reply to this long (57 kB) post please don't hit the reply button,
bane of discussion lists, unless you prune the copy of this post that may
appear in your reply down to a few relevant lines, otherwise the entire
already archived post may be needlessly resent to subscribers. The
abstract reads:
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ABSTRACT: Guy Brandenberg and I, in an exchange on EDDRA2, each
erroneously assumed the intent of the other's posts. The misunderstandings
could have been avoided had Brandenberg, in response to my post "Do 'Alien
Species' Exist in the Universe? at <http://bit.ly/1kHEm0i>, written
something like:
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"Alien species" may or may not exist in the Universe, but at least we now
know the answer to the question "Is there life on Mars?" It's YES. We know
this because NASA and the Soviet space agency sent it there on rovers
etc."
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Brandenberg (2014b) went on to write at <http://yhoo.it/1fciR0J>: "We are,
however, beginning to fill in some of the ranges of some of the variables
in the Drake equation, and alien life is definitely a possibility in my
mind. . . . . . . ."
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But in " 'Where is Everybody?' Failure to Detect Intelligence in
the Universe is Due to Failure of Universities Throughout the Universe"
[Hake (2013)] at <http://bit.ly/H3roIC> (6.8 MB) I wrote:
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According to Goldsmith and Owen's "The Search for Life in the
Universe" <http://amzn.to/ij9jKj>": "When we multiply all the factors . .
. .[[in the Drake Equation <http://bit.ly/16MYTZ2>]]. . . .together, we
find that the result for the number N of intelligent civilizations in our
galaxy now with communication ability and desire equals L/40, where L is
the lifetime, measured in years of a civilization once it has developed
the ability and desire to communicate with others." Suppose L = 200 years,
as appears likely for Planet Earth, . . . . .[[According to Wikipedia,
Guglielmo Marconi <http://bit.ly/1c4nqeL> started transmitting long
distance radio waves in the early 1900s.]]. . . .. then N = only 5
civilizations in our galaxy are trying to communicate with us. . . . . . .
.[[or effectively zero (0) withln the considerable margin of error]]. . .
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********************************************
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I fear that Guy Brandenberg and I, in our exchange of 17- 20 Jan on
EDDRA2, each erroneously assumed the intent of the other's posts. [To
access EDDRA2, non-subscribers
may have to set up a "Yahoo account" as
instructed at
<http://yhoo.it/iNTxrH>].
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In my post "Do 'Alien Species' Exist in the Universe?" [Hake (2014a)] of
17 Jan 2014 14:50:42-0800 at <http://bit.ly/1kHEm0i> I wrote:
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Q2. Do "alien species" exist in the Universe?
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A2. Probably Not! – see " 'Where is Everybody?' Failure to Detect
Intelligence in the Universe is Due to Failure of Universities Throughout
the Universe" [Hake (2013)] at <http://bit.ly/H3roIC> (6.8 MB). "
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In response, Guy Brandenburg (2014a) wrote at <http://yhoo.it/1kQEuKW>:
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We now know the answer to the question "Is there life on Mars? It's
YES. We know this because NASA and the Soviet space agency sent it there
on rovers etc."
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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ERRONEOUSLY ASSUMING that Brandenberg intended his post to be an answer to
my question "Do 'alien species' exist in the Universe?" and therefore a
refutation of my answer "Probably Not!" in Hake (2014b) at
<http://yhoo.it/1mGxdvE>, I responded:
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" But the term 'alien species' in *not* synonymous with 'life.' According
to my online dictionary the adjective 'alien' means 'relating to or
denoting *beings* supposedly from other worlds; extraterrestrial: an alien
spacecraft.' "
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Then Brandenberg (2014b), evidently ERRONEOUSLY ASSUMING that the above
was intended as a refutation of his positive answer to the question "Is
there life on Mars?" wrote at <http://yhoo.it/1fciR0J>:
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"Duh. Notice that I didn't write 'alien life'. I just wrote 'life'. "
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The above misunderstandings could have been avoided had Brandenberg
responded to Hake (2014a) with something like:
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=~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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"Alien species" may or may not exist in the Universe, but at least we now
know the answer to the question "Is there life on Mars?" It's YES. We know
this because NASA and the Soviet space agency sent it there on rovers
etc."
.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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Brandenberg (2014b) went on to write at <http://yhoo.it/1fciR0J>:
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"We are, however, beginning to fill in some of the ranges of some of the
variables in the Drake equation, and alien life is definitely a
possibility in my mind. . . ."
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Regarding the Drake equation in " 'Where is Everybody?' Failure to Detect
Intelligence in the Universe is Due to Failure of Universities Throughout
the Universe" [Hake (2013)] at <http://bit.ly/H3roIC> (6.8 MB) I wrote.
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
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According to Goldsmith and Owen (2001, p. 450) "When we multiply all the
factors . . . .[[in the Drake Equation <http://bit.ly/16MYTZ2>]]. . .
.together, we find that the result for the number N of intelligent
civilizations in our galaxy now with communication ability and desire
equals L/40, where L is the lifetime, measured in years of a civilization
once it has developed the ability and desire to communicate with others."
Suppose L = 200 years, as appears likely for planet Earth, . . . .
.[[According to Wikipedia, Guglielmo Marconi <http://bit.ly/1c4nqeL>
started transmitting long distance radio waves in the early 1900s.]]. . .
.. then N = only 5 civilizations in our galaxy trying to communicate with
us . . . . .[[or effectively zero (0) within the margin of error]]. . . .
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Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University; Honorary
Member, Curmudgeon Lodge of Deventer, The Netherlands; President, PEdants
for Definitive Academic References which Recognize the Invention of the
Internet (PEDARRII); LINKS TO: Academia <http://bit.ly/a8ixxm>; Articles
<http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>; Blog <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>; Facebook
<http://on.fb.me/XI7EKm>; GooglePlus <http://bit.ly/KwZ6mE>; Google
Scholar <http://bit.ly/Wz2FP3>; Linked In <http://linkd.in/14uycpW>;
Research Gate <http://bit.ly/1fJiSwB>; Socratic Dialogue Inducing (SDI)
Labs <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>; Twitter <http://bit.ly/juvd52>.
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REFERENCES [URL shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 22 Jan
2014.]
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Brandenburg, G. 2014a. "Re: Do 'Alien Species' Exist in the Universe?" on
the CLOSED! EDDRA2 archives at <http://yhoo.it/1kQEuKW>. Post of 18
Jan 11:47 AM to EDDRA2. EDDRA2 fails to specify the time zone.
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Brandenburg, G. 2014b. "Re: Do 'Alien Species' Exist in the Universe?"
Response to Brandenberg, on the CLOSED! EDDRA2 archives at
<http://yhoo.it/1fciR0J>. Post of 20 Jan 10:07 AM to EDDRA2. EDDRA2 fails
to specify the time zone.
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Goldsmith, D. & T. Owen. 2001. "The Search for Life in the
Universe." Addison Wesley, 3rd edition. Amazon.com information at
<http://amzn.to/ij9jKj>, note the searchable “Look Inside” feature.
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Hake, R.R. 2011. "Should the Culture of University Science Education Be
Changed?" Invited talk, Southern California Section of the AAPT, 14 May
2011, Pierce College, Woodland Hills, CA; online as a 3.4 MB pdf at
<http://bit.ly/iegznz>.
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Hake, R.R. 2013. " 'Where is Everybody?' Failure to Detect Intelligence in
the Universe is Due to Failure of Universities Throughout the Universe," 9
October, online as a 6.8 MB PowerPoint (ppt) presentation at
<http://bit.ly/H3roIC>. Presented in a breakout session during the 16th
Annual Seminar Cruise of "The Nation" magazine. Based on a 2011 talk
"Should the Culture of University Science Education Be Changed?"[Hake
(2011)]. That talk was based, in turn, on an unpublished 1989
libretto "The Science Illiteracy Crisis: A Challenge for the University"
with the leitmotif "The road to science literacy begins with effective
science courses for pre-college teachers."
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Hake, R.R. 2014a. "Do 'Alien Species' Exist in the Universe?" online on
the OPEN! AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/1kHEm0i>. Post of 17 Jan 2014
14:50:42-0800. The abstract and link to the complete post are being
transmitted to several discussion lists and are also on my blog
"Hake'sEdStuff" at <http://bit.ly/1dCUNHr>.
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Hake, R.R. 2014b. "Do 'Alien Species' Exist in the Universe?" Response to
Brandenberg," online on the CLOSED! EDDRA2 archives
at <http://yhoo.it/1mGxdvE>. Post of 20 Jan 09:27 AM to EDDRA2. EDDRA2
fails to specify the time zone.
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Other related posts:
- » [net-gold] Do "Alien Species" Exist in the Universe?" What's the Drake Equation Have to Say? #2 - David P. Dillard
