At 07:02 AM 2/5/05 -0800, you wrote: >Harry can vouch for its effectiveness as he was the recipient of >part of the booty! - Al Messer When I go mooching and begging scraps these days, and scrap hunting is getting much more difficult, I no longer mention anything about "miniature steam" or especially "BOILER." Some people/shops have become very wary of liability no matter how remote and untraceable their involvement might be and any mention of a regulated use, such as pressure vessels, tends to make them nervous. Officially I am now (or when required) involved in building "a heat exchanger . . . an experimental device . . . for a medical research project" and this seems not only to remove fears of potential liability but make them quite willing to help or contribute to the experiment. By all this I don't mean that I expect to walk in just anywhere and have people give me things . . . sometimes the benefits are very small but are benefits nonetheless, such as being allowed rummage through the bins in the back of the shop for (possibly) just the right bit that maybe they weren't aware they even had, whereas the usual walk-in customer would not be allowed beyond the front counter. A severe blow came a few years ago when our local brass/bronze/copper supplier would no longer allow regular buyers to rummage through their scrap shed for "just the right piece" - cash & carry. Officially they no longer kept "scrap" and a formal order had to be placed at the sales counter, and of course you were charged associated cutting and handling charges in addition to waiting for long periods if not having to make a second trip to retrieve the goods. They were in so many words telling me (and others like me) "We don't want to be bothered with your business." Regards, Harry MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.