[modeleng] Re: 0-4-0 Hunslet drawings (Marsh)
- From: The Sheppard Residence <psbr20252@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:50:25 +0100
Hello All,
Peter (back from China on Friday and Luton today) - both places where
English is not the first language :-)
I've looked at my drawings. I have a set from Roger Marsh and his
locomotive is 1/3 scale based on a relative to the Alice Class named
"Una" that was purchased by the Pen-Yr-Orsedo Quarry of N Wales.
Wheel base is 13" that would scale to 39".
p135 of "Quarry Hunslets of N Wales" by Cliff Thomas.
Now Roger does allow for variants in the design (his first sheet is a
series of sketches of variations in Hunslets supplied to Welsh quarries
and I decided to build a Later Dinorwic Port Class (e.g. Lady Joan),
this has the same wheelbase (p143 of the above book).
I hope that this is now as clear as mud!
Cheers
Peter
Craig Gluyas wrote:
> Hi Rich
>
> The first page of the Milner drawings has about 5 pictorial variants on
> showing various types the drawings can be used to build! The wheelbase of
> the Milner is definitely 16" though, which would scale to 4'.
>
> What you tend to find is that people change the cosmetic bits of the design
> to match which design they want, whilst leaving the chassis details the
> same. The most common is adding a centre dome and moving the safety valves,
> similar to some of the locos on the Llanberis Railway.
>
> I must say here I don't profess to know anything much about the Hunslet
> locos! Now if they had done a 15" gauge one....
>
> Regards
>
> Craig
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of R.L. Roebuck
> Sent: 26 July 2009 00:58
> To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [modeleng] Re: 0-4-0 Hunslet drawings (Milner)
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Craig Gluyas wrote:
>> Hi Rich,
>> The Milner hunslet is the longer version, scaling to a 4' wheelbase (16"
>> on 7¼). It works out about 48" long.
>
> Hi there Craig,
>
> Thanks for your message.
>
> I'm somewhat confused though.
>
> According to this page...
>
> http://www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/3455/index.htm
>
> ...the Milner Hunslet being talked about is "Alice" class, which according
> to the book I have here was the smaller 3 foot 3" whwwelbase in real life.
>
> Also according to this page...
>
> https://vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/shop_item.asp?sub_cat_id6&page=4
>
> ...the Milner design is offered with a standard "Holy War" cast nameplate
> - with "Holy War" definitely being an "Alice" class hunslet in real life
> (Hunslet works number 779, built in 1902).
>
> Do the Milner drawings offer variants on wheelbase, and other details
> perhaps?
>
> Scaling from the Station Road Steam pictures, the wheelbase looks an awful
> lot nearer to 13 inches than 16 inches though the perspective could be
> affecting my judgment (also overall length should be (13+(10/12))*4U.3",
> whereas 48" only corresponds to 12 foot in full size, almost 2 foot too
> short).
>
> Also all the Milner Hunslets I've seen seem to have a proportion of the
> cyliner casting protruding above the running boards, which is a trait of
> the Alice and several other classes (Dinorwic Port class, Penrhyn Small
> Quarry class), but not the Penrhyn Port class or the Penrhyn Large Quarry
> class.
>
> Compare Milner Hunslet...
>
> http://www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/3455/pages/3455-f.htm
>
> ...to Penrhyn Port Class Hunslet...
>
> http://www.quarryhunslet.mste.co.uk/public/Gwynedd.php
>
> What do you reckon - am I missing something?
>
> Yours,
>
>
> Rich.
>
>> Regards
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>> Hi there Peter,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the offer. I wonder though whether this slightly highlights my
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> The loco you refer to at Bredgar is...
>>>
>>> http://www.bwlr.co.uk/locos.php?flag=lj
>>>
>>> ...which is the Dinorowic version of the Port class, which has something
>>> like a 3 foot 3" wheelbase in real life.
>>>
>>> Whereas the Penrhyn Port class was a different beast, with a 4 foot
>>> wheelbase and a dropped footplate, not to mention lower corners of the
>>> buffer beam rounded off with a very large radii, see...
>>>
>>> http://www.quarryhunslet.mste.co.uk/public/Winifred.php
>>>
>>> (though one shouldn't attribute too much to the lack of a cab as they
> were
>>> semi-easily-detachable.)
>>>
>>> I may be wrong here, but I think the Port designation refers to the wheel
>>> diameter and cylinder sizing, relating to tractive effort, not to a
>>> particular design. In the same way that Estate cars tend to be more
>>> powerful that a Sub-sub-compact (to use the American designation).
>>>
>>> I don't suppose the Milner drawings cater for this longer version?
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>>
>>> Rich.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, peter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rich,
>>>>
>>>> Happy to. I am building a Port class Hunslet in 7.25" (1/3 scale). The
>>>> frames are laid and the boiler complete. I have a complete set of
>>>> drawings, they are by Roger Marsh. I live in Trowbridge and happy to
>>>> entertain visitors.
>>>>
>>>> There is a Port Class at the Bredgar and Wormshill Railway, I was made
>>>> to
>>>> feel very welcome and allowed to crawl all over and under to take
>>>> pictures
>>>> and measurements.
>>>>
>>>> I would give more details, but I am over 3000 miles away from my
>>>> drawings
>>>> in Beijing although I fly back today (its 06:55 here).
>>>>
>>>> e-mail me on peter AT puffernutter DOT co DOT uk and we'll see the best
>>>> way
>>>> of communicating.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:27:11 +0100 (BST), "R.L. Roebuck"
>>>> <rlr20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Hi there All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've a few observations and questions which I thought I'd throw out
>>>>> there
>>>>> to the group incase they drummed up any interesting conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Whilst surfing the interweb last evening, I came across the
>>>>> following
>>>>> site detailing the construction of a Lynton and Barnstaple 2-6-2 in
>>>>> 7.25" gauge...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.mizensrailway.co.uk/Images/Loco/Locos/Davids%20Loco.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> ...this looks like quite an impressive beast, but I was a bit taken
>>>>> aback
>>>>> by the frame thickness of 20mm. Is this kind of thing the norm for
>>>>> Milner
>>>>> locomotive designs?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The thing I was actually looking for was drawings for some of the 4
>>>>> foot wheelbase Hunslet quarry locomotives formerly of North Wales. I've
>>>>> got hold of the book which is the respected source on the subject as
>>>>> talked about by this page...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.quarryhunslet.mste.co.uk/public/intro.php
>>>>>
>>>>> ...but only the drawings smaller and larger hunslets are detailed in
>>>>> the
>>>>> book, whereas the drawings for all but the smallest of the Penrhyn
>>>>> locomotives are missing. Does anyone have any ideas where drawings can
>>>>> be
>>>>> obtained from for the Penrhyn 'Large Quarry' and/or the Penrhyn 'Port'
>>>>> class hunslets? Ie...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.quarryhunslet.mste.co.uk/public/Bill_Harvey.php
>>>>> http://www.quarryhunslet.mste.co.uk/public/Winifred.php
>>>>>
>>>>> ...to me they just have the edge over the other variants which seem to
>>>>> be more commonly modelled.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) In looking through a book detailing full size boiler construction,
>>>>> it
>>>>> looks like it was common place to construct a subassembly of inner and
>>>>> outer firebox all on one piece with backhead the throatplate fitted.
>>>>> Then
>>>>> as the final stages of assembly the boiler barrel, front tubeplate and
>>>>> tubes would be added. Why do we not do this in miniature? Am I missing
>>>>> something here - as we end up having a much larger mass of copper hot
>>>>> for
>>>>> the fitting of all the stays, all the backhead bushes, foudation ring
>>>> etc,
>>>>> whereas with the full size method they keep the size of the 'beast'
>>>>> down
>>>>> for all the fiddly bits, right up till the end of the job?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, is there's anyone out there who fancies a bit of a chat on any
>>>>> of
>>>>> the above subjects?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich.
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