Cj,
I am not pushing either one. We have 7 or 8 macs in the shop and at home so
with all of that investment we are mostly mac. Like you I have a windows
laptop which I am trying not to successfully. to learn. A couple of years ago
I did switch to an android phone and I really like it so I would be called on
the fence but I am comfortable, grin, smile.
Keith Reedy
On Oct 25, 2023, at 12:17 PM, CJ Daniel <cj_daniel@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Keith,
I won’t even pull out the hardware, let alone point a double-barrel @ you.
Over the last year, I’ve had to make some decisions along this line. But,
rather than throw the baby out with the bath water, I came to a compromise.
I’ve purchased a Dell Windows machine, kept my iMac &, also, adopted my
wife’s last Mac Air for portability around the house. I have so much time &
effort invested I’m the Apple eco-system, that I found I couldn’t readily
abandon it. But, there were just too many things that I wanted to do that
weren’t accessible in the Apple realm. So, I do things that are comfortable
& tied to my iPhone & iPad on my Macs. Other things, like Band-in-a-Box,
which is completely in accessible with VoiceOver, I do on my Windows laptop.
Also, I like the seamless interaction between Google tasks & YouTube.
Eventually, I may even split the large SSD on my iMac between OS & a Windows
environment.
Well, that’s my story & it makes me appreciate the post. I completely
understand the OP’s point of view & I relate to the comfortability of the
most used Operating System. I find myself having to stop from automatically
reaching for a key stroke that belongs to the other system that I spent
yesterday in. But, @ 60, it seems to be a good brain challenge that wakes up
the old gray cells. Well, after a few choice phrases that aren’t really all
that nice or acceptable.
Anyway, all the best & thanks for the post,
CJ
On Oct 25, 2023, at 7:38 AM, Keith Reedy <keithreedy@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Please read this before you shoot the messenger or get mad at me for cross
posting, grin.
Begin forwarded message:
From: "David Goldfield" <david.goldfield@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Tech-VI] From the Applevis Blog: Why Not Just Move to Windows?
One Perspective
Date: October 25, 2023 at 12:02:58 AM EDT
To: Tech-VI Announcement List <tech-vi@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: tech-vi@xxxxxxxxx
From the Tech-VI list owner:
Although it should not be the case I’m very much aware that the Mac vs.
Windows debate can sometimes be a contentious issue. If you have opinions
regarding this blog post please direct them as a comment to the author and
not to me as I did not write this piece.
AppleVis: Recent Blog Posts - Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 4:42 PM
Why Not Just Move to Windows? One Perspective
In 2008, despite my failing eyesight, my Windows laptop with ZoomText
empowered me to operate my own software development business. I had
partnered with Bob, a Mac user. We both had prior Unix experience. With
Windows, Mac, and Unix covered, we were a cross-platform development
powerhouse.
At a customer site, while Bob was doing a presentation on cache
optimization, I mistakenly dumped a binary file in a console window, and my
system speaker beeped for every unprintable character. At maximum volume.
For thousands of characters. To silence the ensuing cacophony, I put the
laptop to sleep by closing the lid.
“Get a Mac,” Bob said, eliciting a few chuckles from our clients.
I laughed along too. After all, the comment was intended as humor.
But there was a lot buried in those three words. Bob asserted that the Mac
was a Utopian computing environment that solved everyone’s problems, and he
presumed that moving from Windows to Mac would be easy.
I didn’t switch to Mac until years later. But recent discussion on AppleVis
has prompted me to recall the story and share my memories. Here it is.
Categorize it in the “for what it’s worth” bin.
Staying on Windows
I was not inclined to leave Windows anytime soon. When I sat at my Windows
computer, I was in a comfortable environment. Outlook, Word, Excel, and
Visual Studio were so familiar they felt like extensions of my fingertips.
I was at home.
But Windows also had its flaws. For brevity, I’ll limit my complaints to
four.
• Boot slowed over time, and Windows lacked effective tools to improve
it.
• Windows was lousy at managing multiple processes. Multicore CPUs made
little difference in performance.
• Windows had serious problems waking from sleep mode.
• Many applications were inaccessible, including any software built
with the Qt user interface toolkit.
I’m stopping there, but trust me. The list is long.
Despite its flaws, I stuck with Windows. We’d had fifteen years together. I
knew that changing operating systems would simply swap problems I knew for
problems I could only imagine.
Making the Switch
It wasn’t Bob’s teasing that moved me off Windows. It wasn’t the abysmal
boot time, the poor multiprocess support, or the inconvenience of cycling
power to get my computer out of sleep mode.
It was Microsoft.
By 2015, Microsoft had made it clear that Windows 7 would soon reach
end-of-life. Everyone was being strong-armed to move to Windows 10. I even
remember an update that inserted Windows 10 adware into the corner of my
desktop, an annoying cattle prod that my residual vision couldn’t ignore.
Microsoft forced me to leave Windows 7, and I resented them for it.
I only had one way to get back at Microsoft. If they were going to force me
to pick a new OS, I would consider Linux and Mac along with Windows 10.
The improvements to Windows Narrator seemed promising. But upgrading to the
latest JAWS would come with a price tag. And the more I tinkered with
Windows 10, the more I felt lost in a sea of pointless changes. Plus, there
was that whole resentment thing.
Linux was surprisingly usable and had made several accessibility
improvements. But accessibility had enough gaps to leave me anxious, and
the desktop had an awkward feel that I suspected I would never shake.
I had acquired a Mac Book Pro that I used for work-related tasks. Bob had
showed me a few things that I liked, such as the Terminal access to the
Darwin shell and the built-in accessibility features.
Of the three, the Mac looked the most promising. I would try the Mac for my
new home computer, and if it turned out to be a train wreck, I could always
reconsider Linux or Windows 10.
You might wonder what it’s like, switching to a new computing environment.
Let me describe my experience.
It reminded me of a recent visit to my dentist for root canal. The dentist
seemed friendly enough, but within minutes he was jabbing needles into my
gums and drilling past my sinuses and into my brain. And my personal
comfort was the furthest thing from his mind.
I’m exagerating, of course. But not by much. As I switched back and forth
between browsing the web on Windows 7 to find out how to browse the web on
my Mac, that dentist’s chair started to look pretty comfortable. My neck
and shoulders ached from using my residual vision to try to grasp the Mac
desktop, and my fingers ached from performing strange new shortcuts that
could only have been conceived by a psychopath.
I worked part-time when I made this transition. I don’t believe I could
have done it while working full-time, or working towards a degree. My
productivity dropped to zero. It was some time before I was comfortable,
before I could sit at my new computer and simply use it without focusing on
which keyboard shortcuts did what.
I want to be clear about this. The Mac wasn’t the problem. The difficulty
came from leaving a comfortable and familiar computer and learning a new
computer—any new computer. Forgetting everything you know about your home
computer is disruptive. This is not a decision you make casually. It is a
painful and time-consuming task.
Living with Mac
I never expected the Mac to be the perfect computing environment. But you
know what? It’s surprisingly close.
Nonetheless, I told you what I disliked about Windows. Let me do the same
for Mac.
• There are plenty of inaccessible apps, and I count MS Word among
them, arguably the most popular computer application.
• Intentionally or unintentionally, MacOS updates break things, like
the upgrades that broke my Cannon scanner, deleted all my Music library
album art, and removed scheduled tasks from System Preferences.
• Some simple tasks are inexplicably slow, like the half-second delay
between pressing Command+S and hearing the save dialog open. That small
delay makes my modern Mac Mini feel like a Motorola 68000.
• Lack of open hardware. I ought to be able to upgrade the RAM or SSD
myself.
Important note. I had to think to create this list. It was way easier to
name things I disliked about Windows 7.
My Mac has become a warm blanket, a favorite pair of gloves. It is
comfortable—just like my Windows system used to be. I still resent
Microsoft for forcing me to switch. But I have to admit, things worked out
okay.
Why Don't You Just Move to Windows?
Besides the excellent Apple product news and descriptions of new
applications for both Mac and iPhone, AppleVis is the only place I know of
where blind Apple users can discuss odd behavior, figure out whether it’s a
bug or not, and brainstorm workarounds.
But every once in a while, as we’re discussing Safari Not Responding, the
latest text editing weirdness, or the crazy way VoiceOver focus jumps
around, some well-meaning soul will ask, “Why don’t you just move to
Windows?”
I know these people mean well. I bet they truly believe Windows never
presents any accessibility hurdles. They’re confident that switching from
Mac to Windows would be a trivial and pleasant experience. And, somehow,
they have come to believe that maybe we’ve never heard of the most popular
operating system on the planet.
I work hard to ignore their comments.
Hearing someone suggest I move to Windows takes me right back to that day
in 2008 when Bob insulted me with his off-hand “Get a Mac” remark.
If we’re being honest, there is no one operating system that is objectively
better than all others. Most users will find things to love or hate about
any computer. And changing from one to another is a frustrating, tedious,
and time-consuming challenge that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. I’ve
done it once, when Microsoft forced me to. I hope I never have to do it
again.
I’m not naive enough to expect that I’ll post this blog, flowers will
blossom, the sun will rise on a new day, and no one will ever suggest I
change computers again. But maybe one person will think twice about
casually suggesting a major disruption to everyone’s productivity. And if
the comments devolve into a Mac versus PC war, I’m cool with that too.
I’ll close here and turn it over to you. The comments are open—Why don’t
you just move to Windows?
Tags
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Comments
Well written.
By Brian
1 hour 45 min ago
Very insightful. Thank you for posting this, and for acknowledging that
this, too, will likely become a PC vs Mac troll war.
Having said that, the only thing I would say is that I wish for a future
where Apple Silicone Macs have a version of Bootcamp, as I am one of those
oddballs who prefers a dual boot system over a virtual environment.
Always.
Thanks again, PaulMartz! 😃
•
Why I won’t switch to Mac
By singer girl
1 hour 40 min ago
Hi Paul, this was a very interesting read. I want to give you my reasons
why I won’t switch to Mac. I grew up with windows. It’s the only operating
system I’ve ever used and I use jaws. I would be more willing to switch to
a different screen reader than a different operating system Also, I’ve read
enough on here to know of the negative experiences that money makers are
having, and it just doesn’t seem to be worth it. I was also told by one of
my really good friends who did make the switch due to her schooling
situation if I didn’t have to do it don’t. She was a Music student so she
had to learn the Mac from windows and that was her experience and that’s
what she told me. I don’t think I need to find out how bad something is for
myself in order to not switch. I’m not saying that I’m not willing to maybe
play with one just to see it, I just don’t think I would ever switch
full-time. I am willing to play with one though I just never had one to
play with. I just got something I want to buy because of the amount of
money that it cost to get a bag of bread. I don’t have that kind of money.
I said, though, this is purely personal preference and no one can tell
anyone what to switch to. Do you know what works for you and you’re using
it and that’s great. I usually hope Apple fixes a lot of the Mac issues
though.
•
Windows
By OldBear
1 hour 18 min ago
Good to know that Windows getting wild makeovers drove other people away
too. I jumped from Windows to iOS, rather than MacOS, and was already
fooling around with Linux since 05 or 06.
Having both operating systems to turn to covers a lot of accessibility
issues or fills in gaps for me. There are also times I have to switch over
full time to iOS if I need to go out of town, or the wired internet goes
down. I really, really needed an accessible, digital camera back about
fifteen to twenty-five years ago, but you can't get time and portfolio back.
I'm not sure I would want to only depend on a single system at this point.
It's forced me to find basic and generic ways of using computers, sometimes
old hardware, that aren't crippling to me if I don't have a specific app. I
don't switch back to Windows because I don't have to. I will say that the
new Linux subsystem on Windows thing sounds tempting, NVDA and Orca aren't
so wildly different in the way they work, but why bother if I don't have to?
•
I’m with you old bear
By singer girl
1 hour 6 min ago
Hi, I totally agree here. If you don’t have to switch, I do it. There’s no
reason to give yourself that kind of frustration and headache if you
definitely don’t have to. I know I definitely don’t have to switch to a
Mac, so I’m not going to. As I said before, I will play with one maybe just
to say that I’ve played with one, but nothing to switch full-time with.
•
I think i'm the one you're talking about.
By Brad
1 min 18 sec ago
I've been using windows for around 15 years now and really haven't had any
issues with the software from a screen reader prospective, sure I had
issues with JAWS but back when that was an issue the mac and applevis
weren't talked about or weren't a thing.
I'm glad you're happy with windows but no one forced you to switch, you
chose to because microsoft put a thing you say you couldn't ignore on its
system. Also of course MS told people to update, that's how systems work.
If I am the one you're talking about I've never helled a gun to someone's
head and demanded they switch, I just suggested it because voiceover on the
mac seams to be forgotten about/broken and with every update it seams to
get worse.
•
https://applevis.com/blog/why-not-just-move-windows-one-perspective
David Goldfield
Assistive Technology Specialist
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