NB: I've used [ ]s to indicate the symbol for 'section.' When I tried to use that symbol, freelists.org replaced it dollar signs, etc. I hope the umlauts make it through. Phil asks: '...what is involved in an ostensive definition?' Let me try to respond to this part of his thoroughgoing post, for he is right: this passage is about the role of 'ostensive definitions' in language; about the role of names (how names are used and learned); and is a continuation of the discussion of how language is and isn't learned. It is _not_ about chess, metaphors, or other tropes. (The discussion of how trying to solve problems by appealing to ostensive definition leads to further problems begins in the Blue Book.) Wittgenstein considers in the very first section of the Investigations a certain view of how language is learned: it is Augustine's view (Confessions I.8), and amounts to roughly this: as a child, one learns a language by observing and listening to adults as they name, identify, and point out things that are open to view. (Augustine's account would not seem to explain how we learn words like 'or,' 'hence,' 'maybe,' 'yesterday,' 'impossible' (and various other modal terms), i.e., words that are not prima facie names, and do not have ostensible referents.) Wittgenstein says of it: 'Augustine does not speak of there being any difference between kinds of word. If you describe the learning of language in this way, you are, I believe, thinking primarily of nouns like "table", "chair", "bread", and of peoples names, and only secondarily of the names of certain actions and properties; and of the remaining kinds of words as something that will take care of itself [was sich finden wird].' And later: 'Augustine, we might say, does describe a system of communication [ein System der Verstandigung]; only not everything that we call language is [such a] system...It is as if someone were to say: "A game consists in moving objects about on a surface according to certain rules..."--and we replied: "You seem to be thinking primarily of board games, but there are others. You can make your definition correct by restricting it to those games.' [3] He has just introduced [2] the famous example of the 'Builders,' whose only words are 'block,' 'pillar,' 'slab,' and 'beam,' and whose form of life consists entirely of fetching and carrying blocks and building with them. We are to imagine this as 'a complete primitive language.' 'We could imagine [6] that the language of [2] was the _whole_ language of a tribe...children are brought up to perform _these_ actions (e.g. the builder's assistant fetches a block when the Builder says, 'Block'), to use _these_ words as they do so, and to react in _this_ way to the words of others. ... An important part of this training will consist in the teacher's pointing to the objects, directing the child's attention to them, and at the same time uttering a word; for instance, the word "slab" as he points to that shape. (I do not want to call this "ostensive definition", because the child cannot yet _ask_ what the name is. I will call it "ostensive teaching of words" [hinweisendes Lehren der Worter].--I say that it will form an important part of the training, because it is so with human beings, not because it could not be imagined otherwise.' 'The child cannot yet ask...' This points the way to the discussion of ostensive definition, which makes up an important part of [31]. An ostensive definition, one might say, at first, makes sense only where one knows something about the surroundings into which the definition is to 'fit.' 'What is this called?' and 'What is this?' presuppose that the answers to some earlier questions have been answered--e.g. 'This controls the intensity of the light.' 'What's it called?' 'A rheostat.' (Next, I suppose, comes Quine, and his radical indeterminacy of translation...) Answering this question is different from merely indicating an object and saying, 'That's a rheostat,' or 'That's called a rheostat,' in the absence of any particular setting. Wittgenstein moves, in these very compressed initial sections, which I pass over reluctantly, to the question [10] 'Now what do the words of this language _signify_ [bezeichnen]?' The language here [8] is the language of the Builders modified to include words used as numbers would be used in counting, various color words, and 'two words, which may as well be "there" and "this" (because this roughly indicates their purpose).' 'What is supposed to show what they signify, if not the kind of use they have? And we have already described that. So we are asking for the expression "This word signifies _this_" to be made part of the description. In other words the description ought to take the form "The word....signifies....". He goes on to suggest that for all of the words in [8] 'assimilating their descriptions [the descriptions of how they are used] in this way [by construing them as signifying or referring] cannot make the uses themselves any more like one another. For, as we see, they are absolutely unalike.' [13] When we say: "Every word in language signifies something" we have so far said _nothing whatsoever_; unless we have explained exactly _what_ distinction we wish to make.' I'll skip over the sections from here to [30]; the material is too dense and suggestive; too filled with allusions and cross-allusions, with battles with himself, with battles with Frege, and provide the bread for [31]s sandwich: [30] 'So one might say: the ostensive definition explains the use--the meaning--of the word when the overall role of the word in language is clear. Thus if I know that someone means to explain a colour-word to me the ostensive definition "That is called 'sepia' " will help me to understand the word.--and you can say this, so long as you do not forget that all sorts of problems attach to the words "to know" or "to be clear". 'One has already to know (or be able to do) something in order to be capable of asking a thing's name. But what does one have to know?' [32] 'Someone coming into a strange country will sometimes learn the language of the inhabitants from ostensive definitions that they give him; and he will have to _guess_ [shades of Quine!] the meaning of these definitions; and he will guess sometimes right, sometimes wrong. 'And now, I think, we can say: Augustine describes the learning of human language as if the child came into a strange country and did not understand [that country's] language; that is, as if [the child] already had a language, only not this one. Or as if the child could already _think_, only not yet speak. [Cf. 342] And here "think" would mean something like "talk to itself". I cannot see how this discussion of the role of naming, referring, ('signifying'), and its transition from simple language games to the whole of language, a discussion which has as one of its aims pulling us away from the Tractatus view that 'names' are fundamental to language, relates directly to the notion of simple objects in the Tractatus. There may be such a relation, but I fail to see it. I'll stop here, leaving that penultimate sentence open to Richard's easy reply--which I hope won't be too easy, and which I look forward to. Robert Paul Reed College ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html