[lit-ideas] Re: Sharia and British Law -- Shalfilea Ahmed
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 18:37:18 +0100 (BST)
I'm following Jack's example, Lawrence, and copying your post here -- in part,
anyway. .
First, yes, I heard today that Shafilea Ahmed's parents had been charged with
her murder -- it's all over the news here, I saw it on the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14822370
May I say, I see no sign here of any British legal capitulation to Sharia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are obviously those in Britain who believe the relations
between Muslims and native Brits are hunky dory.<<<<<<<<<
I resent this distortion of my words.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
In fact if a Muslim is
born in Britain then they want uninformed Americans to call them “native
Brits” as well.
<<<<<<<<<<
"Native"? I call British citizens British.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sharia Law represents no problem for the British. It is
subsumed within British law and absolutely no threat.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I have explained that point at length.
>>>>>>>>>>>
I’d love to
accept all that sweetness and light but I keep encountering disturbing
articles like the following. This one from www.telegraph.co.uk, dated 07
September 2011:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8746751/Parents-of-Shafilea-Ahmed-charged-with-her-murder.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Yes. Here is a summary, for those not familiar with the case.
Shafilea Ahmed was last seen in September 2003.
In December 2003, her parents were arrested and charged with her kidnapping.
In February 2004, her body was found. The exact cause of death has not been
determined (but in 2008, an inquest delivered a verdict of unlawful killing).
In June 2004, her parents were released without charge (insufficient evidence).
In 2010, her parents were arrested on suspicion of her murder. The police have
now been given the go-ahead to charge them.
that's BBC, here's the Guardian story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/07/shafilea-parents-arrested-suspected-honour-killing
Before I continue: our media are bound by presumption of innocence, and I tend
to honour that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It strikes me as foolishness to tolerate Sharia Law in any Western
nation. Did those in Britain who approved this amalgam of Sharia and
British law not foresee difficulties such as those described in the
article? I assume that the intent was something along the lines of “we
British will accept your Sharia Law for Muslims as long as it doesn’t
conflict with British Law.” Something like that must be in effect if the
murder charge against the parents of Shalfilea Ahmed is to stick.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Indeed. And as I have tried to tell you, again and again, as I have said and
explained in this very discussion, yet again, Sharia law only holds for certain
types of *civil* case, and with agreement of all parties, and even then, is
subordinate to British civil (and criminal) law. And this is surely clear from
the timeline above. The words "arrested", "charged", etc., should, Lawrence,
have tipped you off.
And everybody knows this.
"Honour killing" cases to re-open"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/dec/06/ukcrime
"Father convicted of honour killing of his daughter"
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/press_releases/166_09/
"Speakers included Nazir Afzal OBE Chief Crown Prosecutor (CPS) for the
North of England who has successfully prosecuted a number of high
profile honour based violence cases."
http://www.bcu.ac.uk/news-events/news/honour-killings-to-be-focus-of-seminar-series
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In
order for this amalgam to work, Muslims would have to believe that they
were first British citizens and secondly religious Muslims insofar as
the law was concerned, because if they reversed this order they would
continue to engage in medieval customs like “honour killing.”>>>>>>>>>>>>
Muslims (and Sikhs and Hindus) know honour killings, honour crimes in general,
and forced marriages, are illegal here. And NB -- as Jihadwatch says --
"the Qur’an or Islamic tradition does not sanction honor killing"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
British leaders should have foreseen this,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
and done what, precisely?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
but shedding some light on
what British Leaders know, I’ve read recent articles implying that
Britain was extremely naïve about Communist spying during the Cold War.
We in the U.S. cracked down much more effectively on such spying, but
little good it did us because we shared all our secrets with the
British, and they shared them with Soviet spies.
<<<<<<<<<<<
so you think the Rosenbergs were innocent?
and, I take it, you think there are no honour killings in the USA?
**Honour killings in the USA**
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-11-29-honor-killings-in-the-US_N.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391531,00.html
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24329
etc. etc..
I've had enough. This is absurd.
--- On Wed, 7/9/11, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Sharia and British Law -- Shalfilea Ahmed
To: "Lit-Ideas " <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 7 September, 2011, 17:34
http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2011/09/sharia-and-british-law-shalfilea-ahmed.html
Lawrence
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