In a message dated 10/12/2004 8:57:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: He favours the biological approach to understanding selves as an upshot of the evolutionary usefulness of 'individuation' - an approach he finds in Locke. Individuation gives organisms a footing for self-defence and attack, and a basis for coordination of activities. He believes only humans have true 'selfhood' and that we are not born selves but become selves through our acquisition of language, self-consciousness and our mental interaction with World 3. ---- This reminds me of something I was reading in "The Conquest of the River Plate", by R. B. Cunninghame-Graham: "Throughout the conquest numerous references appear to the fear the Indians had of horses, and not unnaturally, for they were animals unknown to them. One of the most touching of these occurred upon this expedition, and only such a man as Nunez would have chronicled it. 'The Indians,' he says, 'had a great terror of the horses, and begged the Governor (Nunez) to speak to them and ask them not to be angry*, and so that they should be contented brought them aboundant food.' ("Tenian muy gran terror de los caballos, y rogaban al Governador que los dixese a los caballos que no se enojasen y por los tener contentos los traian de comer") (p. 119). Strictly, to beg the Governor to ask the horses not to be angry possibly does not _presuppose_ (on the part of the begger) that the begger _thinks_ a horse has selfhood or consciousness. Indeed, it is possible for a horse to _understand_ the implicature ("Calm down, animal"), even if not what is strictly said ("the dictum"), or it is? Cheers, JL ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html